This is today’s open thread for The Saker Blog discussion points.
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Updates on the Ukraine
- Mariupol has been declared liberated and it is being called the 2nd Liberation of Mariupol. Russian Minister of Defense Sergey Shoigu, during a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, announced that “The Total Liberation of Mariupol by the Allied Forces has been achieved”, with only the Azovstal Industrial Zone stronghold and its underground regions under the control of the Nationalist Forces of the Azov Regiment and remnants of the Ukrainian Regular Army in the city.
- The Azovstal plant will not be stormed but tightly encircled. Putin ordered to cancel the assault on Azovstal in order to save the lives of Russian military personnel, as well as completely block the enterprise. “There is no need to climb into the catacombs, it is necessary to block the industrial zone in Azovstal so that the fly does not fly.” This is a siege to starvation or surrender. Lone Wolf has more complete details here: http://sakerlatam.blog/the-saker-files/sitrep-operation-z-12/#comment-1075175
- The Easter truce or cease-fire requested by the UN has been rejected by Russia, on the grounds that their experience is that the Ukies will use the time to re-arm and re-position.
- Russia has all the necessary financial resources, no default threatens the country – Nabiullina
Update on Gonzalo Lira
For all that still believe that Scott Ritter reported Gonzalo’s killing, Ritter posted a clarification:
A point of clarification—I have no direct evidence that Gonzalo has been killed. I was clear I was referring to “reports emerging” about his demise. But Gonzo said any disappearance of more than 12 hours should be treated as if something bad had happened to him. It’s been five days. If this had been a New York Times reporter disappearing in Russian controlled territory, it would be headline news—especially if a Chechen “hunter killer” team had taken credit for his death. But with Gonzo—silence. Which was the whole purpose of the post: to raise awareness about his disappearance.
The full transcript of Mr Lavrov’s press conference with India Today television channel is now posted up. Highly recommended reading.
Best wishes to Orthodox Christians while celebrating Easter.
Use as open thread.
Tragic news, Gonazlo Lira has been confirmed kidnapped, tortured and murdured by the Azov Battalion, Kraken unit.
I truly hope they catch alive the bastard’s who did this!
May his soul rest in peace and my prayers goes to his family. 🙏🏻 ☦️❤️
Source Scott Ritter.
Please read what he said, it´s likely but *Not* confirmed.
Daniel Martin, read the update in the post. Please, no more of this passing on of information that may be fake. The real issue is that we don’t know.
My apologies I should have been more specific , the text comes from a screenshot that was posted on the Telegram Chanel Intel Slava Z, if it was taken out of context from Scott Ritter I don’t know? because the whole text was not available ,it was no intention of my to mislead in any way.
Kraken “claims” without evidence.
It would have been a good idea for you to actually read Scott Ritter statement, included in this article:
“A point of clarification—I have no direct evidence that Gonzalo has been killed. I was clear I was referring to “reports emerging” about his demise. But Gonzo said any disappearance of more than 12 hours should be treated as if something bad had happened to him. It’s been five days.”
to avoid attributing to him a ‘confirmation” that Gonzalo was “kidnapped, tortured and murdered.” It is fair to surmise he was captured and perhaps killed. The rest is speculation. Try to understand the difference.
There is no proof; only claim. Anyone can make a claim.
No proof of life, but also no proof of death.
Nah – he just surfaced again. But, personally? I have questions.
https://youtu.be/R2yeSOcNlgE
That is slightly less bad news about poor Gonzalo. If he has indeed been captured by the SBU, maybe he’ll be forced to sign a “confession” and then be imprisoned as a spy. Better than the alternative.
Sealing off Avostal is a good move in my view. Then we’ll see if they really are within hours or days of holding out. My guess is that was all propaganda, and they won’t show their faces for a lot longer than that. It may allow some of these mysterious assets to be captured alive.
I think the Russkis could accelerate the process by piping in distressing loud music. E.g. Florence Foster Jenkins, the tone deaf “opera singer”, giving it her all.
Hey! Just pipe in Disney’s “It’s a Small World” on a continuous loop, at Volume Eleven!
They will surrender en masse in less than 48 hours! GUARANTEED! Of course, more than half of the surrendering troops will be rendered insane by that time.
I’d play the Russian national anthem at full volume till their ears bleed.
I’ve been suspicious of the claim about a thousand civilians, children, etc.
But of course nobody actually knows.
I’m also suspicious about the fight to the death claim.
Kiev perhaps wants them to vanish from the earth, but sooner or later the leadership in the tunnels might have second thoughts about Valhalla.
Lone Wolf posted a conversation between Putin and Shoigu in the previous comment thread:
http://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-12/#comment-1075175
And I think that makes the most sense. Keep the electricity and water and sewage on for the tunnel system. Let them stay down there as long as they want — don’t waste resources trying to dig them out or shoot at them. Eventually they will get hungry. Arrest them when they come out.
The military is needed for Phase 2.
My understanding is that they’re in a nuclear bomb shelter, which means they have their own internal food, energy and water supply. The question then is, which runs out first? The food, the water or the power?
Lets assume any civilians in the catacombes are hostages. Their safety is RF concerns.
A Nazis move to exchange hostages for their own freedom would show the world who the bad guys really are.
Killing civilians would eventually show extreme malice.
Letting them starve to death would also not be good visuals.
Putin is doing the right thing here.
The best thing the Nazis can do is force the civilians to leave, and then die an honorable death.
Or surrender.
Just my thoughts.
Beware of lightning bolt striking while the sun shines.
Actually bro, Bama, happening here right now! norcali.
The shot heard around the world?
“…This is a siege to starvation or surrender…”
For how long?
Different reports describe the nazi reserves as enough to last for years, and if we take their videos as reference, they all seem well fed, no signs of malnourishment at all. Wonder what the estimates are on the Russian side to prolong the siege for as long as necessary. Regardless, it is the humanitarian way to go, particularly during Orthodox holidays. Showing magnanimity, mercy and compassion, is to be in alignment with The Most High.
Lone Wolf
It does not mean that the zone will not be fired upon with concrete piercing and thermobaric weapons.
Amount of reserves won’t make much difference as it is unlikely that any of the buried-alive forces has the relevant training for sustaining such high-stress situation. Only select elite troops around the world are trained for underground ops and usually it is for short, limited and specific missions not for long-term siege survival in underground facilities.
Pu simply except if Azov&Co, regular UKR marines, NAto/mercs are all professional speleogists, food or not, it won’t take long before they go completely nuts.
If you add, that they are most likely packed with the wrong kind of drugs for this kind of situation (meth doesn’t help to chill), it will soon turn into some blood orgy down there. Whether there are 1000, 2000, etc…just put 10 people in such situation and after a couple of days, not many survivors and the remaining ones good for psychiatric institutions.
First the weak ones will be killed for “whining too much”, then the remaining ones will find themselves watching their backs constantly for fear of being killed because appearing weak while surrounded with rotting bodies or just daily scenes of shooting their former buddies.
Above-ground, even if under siege and knowing u doomed, at least u can get a breath of fresh air, and if lucky, even a glimpse of sun (vitamin D powerful effect for the mind) and blue sky…not such the case here.
So by refusing to surrender, they more or less sealed their fate, they will die by their own hands. Basic psychology teaches so.
Wondering if some kind of Massada syndrom doesn’t affect the crazies in Kiev – or on the other side of the Atlantic – not allowing surrender…might be related to some specific heritage.
Azovstal is basically a war within a war, the Ukies will understand that very soon.
Or those who do not want all of this will take the upper hand.There are such people there, judging from the corpses of shot in the back of the head with Russian leaflets clutched in their hands.
Or the foreign mercenaries will make their own decisions.
The Russian forces may attempt to take control of the Avostal above ground structures. All those goons below ground are basically in prison now. If the Russians want to make it worse shutting off power would shift the creature comfort level from bad to maximum suckage.
Leaving them in there makes a lot more sense than trying to dig them out. I am against flooding the facility or pumping in poison gas as this would violate the rules of war and be a major PR disaster.
In the end I suspect that they will surrender. Better to face future legal issues than to starve to death in an underground bunker.
Deliberate flooding may not be necessery. Bunker buster bombs surely cracked concrete walls and hydroisolation. Underground water will slowly pour in, and flood everything up to the sea level.
Sorry to have to ask (having never been conscripted i know nothing about the rules of war):
Why “flooding the facility” “would violate the rules of war” ?
Flooding the 80 meters deep facility would force the occupiers upp in order to avoid drowning. Filling 24 km of tunnels would take a lot of time and therefore provide plenty of time to rethink surrending while carrying food and other necessities to the upper regions.
You saw too many hollywood movies, the bunker system under Asowstal is not only build to resist a nuclear strike , its bulid for housing and survive a nuclear fallout, so it has all you need to survive a couple of weeks at least.
starting from storage rooms, social rooms to wastewater system and power generators.
The single point of failure is the hvac system but beside that they can have a decent life there for a long time.
Speaking of Massada syndrom , do you follow the news ? you saw recent pictures from Kiew? there is almost normal living
The actual construction of the bunker system is unknown. It is doubtful that the images of “6 stories” underground etc is accurate in any way. The cost of such elaborate structures is prohibitive. Underground coastal fortification in close proximity to water (the Black Sea) would be prone to flooding. Somewhere there are detailed plans of the construction, and you can be sure the RF has them.
That being said Pres. Putin’s call is correct. Flushing them out is a needless waste of resources.
How do you know the below grade structures of the plant? As others (here I believe) have pointed out, massive and deep below grade construction in this location would be a huge challenge originally. Maintaining it would be even more significant. All of the proposed bunkers would be below the water table. That means constant pumping.
All plants like this have below grade construction for utilities, conveyors and sometimes cart transit. Rail unloading of coal and ore are gravity drop to conveyor. All the photos we’ve seen are brick walls. That’s unsuitable for deep structures. I’m sure there are fairly deep areas of 2 stories or so but it’s a pretty bad place for deep shelters.
No movies here. I’ve spent a decade working old industrial facilities and mines, especially the tunnels. I find it doubtful that there’s some Bond villain lair down there. And if there is I’d be surprised if it had the maintenance it required to still be fully functional. I’d also be surprised if there was still an emergency power source capable of keeping it dry and ventilated.
@Lex
As experienced in construction bussiness, please describe to the Hollywood physicists nightmare of underground water problem. Highlight on maintenance of pumps that are overwhelmed with concrete rubble.
Massada syndrom did refer to the Mariupol situation not to Kiev (reference to Kiev was related to the no-suurender order)…so yes I do follow the news.
As for having a decent life for a long time, all depends of what you call a decent life in an underground facility under siege.
First point, can you claim with certitude that such nuclear fallout shelter was maintained all along the last decades and so adapted for the current situation.
Secondly, you seem to completely ignore the psychological aspect of being more or less buried alive with no prospect of escape, except through surrendering or death.
Those are not “super-soldiers” trained for such situation, even NATO training in urban warfare doesn’t include such scenario: by definition most urban warfare is above ground, with some “excursions” in basements and sewage systems navigation if advanced training is provided for small elite groups.
Furthermore, it can be reasonably assumed that within the Azov&Co, a significant amount of them have psychopath traits (as obvious with the significant available material produced by such groups), and consequently many most likely suffer from some of form of uber-narcissism.
Such psy features are a strong indicator of low tolerance to long-term stress: leading to a self-fueling mechanism: the more one starts to display signs of weakness in front of other (in this case fellow psychos), the higher the level of stress, the lower the tolerance…going full nuts being the next stage.
You (i.e. psycho/narcissistic) can’t hide your – usually hidden – inner sense of weakness and emptiness when locked underground surrounded by other people who may too share similar traits (that’s like locking pitbulls all together in a cage).
For psychos and narcissists, obsessive urge to control and external display of confidence/strength only work in optimal conditions – for them- that is helpless victims of their abuse when in position of strength/control not when being the helpless ones.
In a situation as the current one (that is utter helplessness), the masks fall quickly, even faster when other fellow psychos surround you and can easily read the clues you give.
In such situation, they will soon freak out before falling apart and/or fighting each other which would be the only way to overcome the mental breakdown and maintain an illusion of control. That is finding victims to use a scapegoats and punching-balls among their buddies.
Besides of that, the natural over-stress experienced in such situation, constant promiscuity, increasing tension among the initial group (with progressive creation of sub-groups, leading to in-group and out-group differentiation and conflicts), lack of sunlight (critical), etc… will sooner than later significantly lower your supposed level of comfort.
So as said initially, it is not a matter of food, water or even comfort (with no sunlight and fresh air sounds quite compromised), but all about psychology. Even a normal person can quickly fall apart if trapped in a confined space for a significant time (some freak out just after some time in an elevator even when knowing that help is coming).
Finally, I doubt any long-term survival can be envisaged when the psy profile of the different groups down there is so different: UKR army regulars, NATO professionals (supposedly present), foreign mercenaries and Azov&Co. Too different psychological features btw those different to turn such facility into an undeground holiday resort, whatever the actual or supposed level of comfort. Can’t mix regular joes and psychos and expect all to end in a happy-joyful scenery with the whole firecamp, guitar play and marshmallows package.
Basic psychology says it won’t happen…
The people who should be paying attention to your post and the current predicament is the uber elite of the world who think they can survive a nuclear winter in their own little hidy holes.
This should cause them to completely re think their plans.
IMHO
I think you missed several of the most important factors; drugs, drugs, drugs and lots of them.
I imagine they will be too smashed out of their minds to know where they are….
I mentioned drugs in my initial post…more precisely the wrong kind of drugs in such situation…as not the chill-inducing kind…so only choice: an OD-induced psychosis or a withdrawal-induced one… in both cases hellish trips ahead.
They will certainly know where they are – unfortunately more than they would wish – due to the very nature of the psychotropics supposedly packed down there: which are more perception enhancers than psychedelic trips inducers.
Their situational awareness is going to be so enhanced that mental breakdown will be the most likely outcome. In combat situation, that would – for some – lead to increased performance, in their current situation definitively the worse scenario: brains going in full overload, constantly overwhelmed by the one and same information: “we are f****ed”…
So yes smashed but not in the way you meant…more overwhelmed by an enhanced and increasing sense of helplessness.
Yet can’t be assumed that all will be high or going full cuckoo, thus back to the sub-groups splitting process and resulting in/out-group conflicts with the resulting previously described outcome at one point or another…most likely sooner than later due to the specific psy features mentioned previously.
Thank you for your very comprehensive assessment and psychological effects of group behaviour in isolation settings. The classical studies performed with rats and mice in confined spaces and overcrowding predict that humans in such conditions will not survive long even if they have sufficient food supplies. One of the first straits to emerge will be aggression and intolerance and then degenerating into gratuitous violent in-fighting for whatever resources are left. Conclusion: group extermination.
Humans can survive even in most extreme environments if there is a perception of a temporary deprivation only, that is, there will be an end to it and hope keeps them sane. But they are holed up without a hope in hell of an end other than death; therefore they will ultimately behave like rats and kill each other unless there is an internal rebellion against the no-surrender types. I believe the most fanatical are the best organized and united group and will prevent a rebellion. Some might escape depending on the layout of the building and knowledge of egress points but I don’t expect mass surrender.
By the way, a little escapade into the laws of war in siege-like situations. Customary law of war has established certain principles in such situations, namely that the only person answerable to the conduct of operation of the besieged is the commander in locus himself, not a remote higher authority or a clown president. If he does not surrender knowing that he has no chances whatsoever of defending the position and the defenders are doomed, the besiegers may put them all to the sword, no quarters given. The Geneva Convention has mitigated such inevitable result but the commander would likely face a court martial and executed.
This brings another issue: the criminal responsibility for on-going war crimes. I presume the Russian military has set up a body of expert lawyers collecting all evidence, including oral accounts, of the crimes and perpetrators of atrocities. It is a paramount obligation of the Russian authorities to in due course bring those criminals to an international ad hoc tribunal for a just retribution. The honour of the Russian army and state is at stake here in this conflict and the wider world will be much interested in knowing who the culprits were up to the high brass and politicians who egged on the Ukrainian puppets to this disaster. Nuremberg was designed as a catch-all which-hunt to humiliate Germany and Nuremberg II (seated in Novorossiya) should do the same to the brutal Nazi-like regimes of Natostan countries. They are all in it as accessory before and after.
routes
There is extensive experience on siege of prisons taken over by inmates. Azovstal will probably follow similar timeline.
” So by refusing to surrender, they more or less sealed their fate, they will die by their own hands. Basic psychology teaches so. ”
If they die way Russia will still be blamed. In fact, no matter how they die Russia will be ” at fault ” . Best to cut off water, electricity, and sewage and the let them come out on their own. Total darkness does wonders on people’s psychology. Putin is just wasting more time with his ” humanitarian ” theater.
Total darkness would be suboptimal in an underground trapped maze if the desired outcome is to have them coming out on their own eventually.
That said, the proposed scenario is one out of many, just preferred due to the psy profile of what seems to be the dominant group – Azov&Co: such group being the one most likely to take over, as more prone to unhinged violence without thinking twice, therefore higher likelihood for such scenario.
That said even if as a “wolf pack” type of group, such group may go into full suicide-self destructive mode at group level (nothing surprising for worshippers of historical Nazis and ISIS scum), at the individual level, psychos and narcissists will always priorize their own survival so “save my a**” mode, enhanced by their absolute lack of empathy.
Thus, cohesion of the group and control exerted by it will depend of the pack leader, and whether the hierarchy within the pack will be maintained.
Depending on that, a scenario could well end up with a deal – by a psycho subgroup- with Russians: for example: selling out those supposed Western high-value assets (if actually there) or info about whatever is of value down there in exchange of life.
Yet possible too for the other groups to gain the upper hand, but again so different that cohesive action is less likely: which group? regular UKR soldiers, foreign mercenaries, Western “advisors” , to lead to a surrender.
Regulars would be handicapped by the very fact of being normal: i.e. too much pondering, overwhelmed by stress, despair, fear, hesitation… natural empathy causing unwillingness to exert the required pre-emptive lethal violence at group level against their underground companions…
Foreign mercs might be outnumbered, even if they most likely would prefer a way out: dying in such way was not really part of the deal, whether it was all about the thrill or mere money.
As for the supposed Western “advisors”: who are they? the answer changes everything.
So it’s all about assigning likelihood to the various possible scenarios, by accounting the psychological factor. Dominance/control in such situation is usually gained not by the smartest ones but by the ones the less inclined to ponder much: so psychos have a clear advantage.
Finally, it is reasonable to assume that the Russians, having more info about the actual situation down there, have most likely a preferred scenario and their decision has been made accordingly. I doubt it is just for humanitarian purposes.
Anyways, for now, they won’t go anywhere so no rush needed.
The NATO troops trapped in the steel mill are going to be interesting over the next week or two. A half dozen scenarios come to mind.
Great analysis, thanks.
The thought just occured to me if this might be a partial feint. Yes, a substancial amount of forces can be sent elsewhere, if the goal is not to attack but to besiege. However, i’m wondering if those who remain might actually be more than the russians make it sound like, to provoke the fascists into trying to break out.
The Russians will be there for years too. No need to worry about well fed NAZIs. Food can only last for so long. And also when they start getting on each other’s nerves.
Agreed. They may have really stored food , water , med supplies down there to last six months to a year.
I have always said it, it needs to be taken sooner rather than later, UNLESS only minimal troops are now needed in Mariopol. Yet, we see nothing really happening on any other front. Where are the thermobarics, poison gas, flooding water on Azovstal to encourage the rats to come out?
If Russia suspects evidence of crimes committed there, the last thing they want to do is flood it.
Live rats also tell better tales.
Brother Ma, always good to see you. Where is the flooding water? It needs to be taken sooner than later. War is deception. True. We can say one thing and do another. I think it is better to gas those mofos and drive them up.
Bones
https://fivegunswest.blogspot.com/2022/04/hell-no-joe-we-wont-go-we-aint-marching.html
Once they get control of the top portion they will gas them out or put them to sleep. If that doesn’t work they can seal it off with concrete.
Interesting option about the concrete.
So how is air being circulated inside? Can’t they pump some carbon monoxide in there, putting them to sleep, never to wake again?
In the specially prepared underground fortresses in the Maginot Line positive pressure was maintained within the underground galleries to make it impossible to pump gas in.
They reckoned to be able to hold out for three months and some of them were never captured and only surrendered on orders from army command. They had their own artesian wells within the forts.
Even thought the troops manning the underground forts were specially trained, pschologicla problems did occur. Noise echoing in the galleries was a problem. Officers were sent to train with submariners to deal with the effects of long term confinement underground on soldiers.
N.B. They had specially preconstructed tunnels that came out outside the barbed wire perimetre through which they could escape if the fort was in danger of capture.
As far as I am concerned humanitarian considerations should be very far down the list regarding these callous mass murderers but I support the siege “as long as it takes,” letting them starve, kill each other and die in despair of the rescue that never comes from their masters, for one reason: the important evidence that lies down here and must not be destroyed. Does anyone believe for a moment that Macron is pestering Pres. Putin to let the murders exit (largely unchecked) on humanitarian grounds, rather than out of fear of having the French mercs might expose France’s involvement?
however, there have also been reports that they are running out food, water, medicines. This taken from messages FROM those inside Azovstal. Also if they are so well stocked and supplied, why would there be this desperation to surrender, or request humanitarian corridor, etc. doesn’t make sense to me?
For me, even a week ago I was thinking “why bomb the place” my thought was just exactly, to seal the place and either let them die there by themselves or let them decide to come out. The advantages would be that 1) you don’t lose munitions, 2) you preserve infrastructure, 3) you have a potential opportunity to find out afterwards what (if anything) was being hidden inside, and 4) I figured it would take less manpower to kind of keep the area sealed rather than active military actions, which would mean more personnel available for other needed actions? Then again, I thought “listen girl, you know nothing about military stuff, Putin and the Russian military know exactly what is important and what isn’t and what their resources are, I’mma gonna keep my mouth shut” lol.
You were correct. There may be a future job for you LOL.
The video in the sitrep of them begging for a “extraction” was a good indication. They either don’t have the supplies or the supplies were destroyed is a possibility. The comments were ruthless “Then surrender stupid” were common.
The guy in the video looked very different from other surrendering POWs.
I have my doubts about its authenticity.
The video in the sitrep of them begging for a “extraction” was a good indication. ”
To me this looked like a message to any foreign powers some of whose officers are trapped and whom those powers do not wish to see captured and interrogated. This was a message over the head of Ukie high command which has essentially requested mass suicide.
Mess around with Satanism that’s what you get: trapped in Hell.
Pity the poor hostages, the victims of ruthless dishonorable cowardice…
I had the exact same thoughts.
And why so many suicide missions to extract them. There is someone(s) there they want hidden.
Maybe we just might find out who’s down there after all. A lot of resources were expended trying to get someone out of Mariupol. Should be interesting.
Until the drugs start to run out. Withdrawal symptoms will finish them off… unless they happen to drown them in sea water before then.
I’m sure they brought yearly dose of Captagon.
Water pumps have been stopped.
What about electricity? Why not cut it? Or do the Russians want them to be able to charge the phones, so they (RF) can intercept calls that may contain info that can be useful in trials?
There is no electricity from external sources. It is not known if they have some generators there.
Was the information confirmed that there are civilians underground, serving as protection for the Nazis?
I saw a short video recorded today by a DNR militia on his phone. An elderly man and his wife crawled on their stomach from the debries of Azovstal. They managed to escape, the Azovs were shooting at them and hit the man in the leg, the bone was shattered to pieces and hanging only on ligaments .His elderly wife made a splint from some wood planks and cloth, as far as it could be seen there is secere infection, They crawled for hours toward the DNR positions, she draging him. It could be seen how the DNR soldiers run to take them to safety, caring the old man in their arms.
I surmise Putin just declared the remainder that is holed up in the Avastol as “militarily irrelevant.” If the remainder were to actually come out, they would have to be put in a some prison somewhere anyway. So, what has essentially happened is that the Avastol has become the remainder’s prison of their own making. For all Putin cares, they can stay there as long as the want. Russia has concluded military operations in Maripol, and is moving on.
My guess is that it’s going to an active, evolving blockade.
I don’t think that the the Russians are just going to sit back and wait them out. There will most likely be active prodding to find weaknesses in the defenses and troop cohesion.Take this small hallway here, break off that specific unit there by convincing them to maneuver to a spot where they can be extracted for surrender, or give them the moral support to off the enforcers in their ranks and just walk out. Sitting in one spot for years is grueling enough, despite how much food and water you have, but constantly being on alert and jumping from one foot to the other trying to dodge ghost will break a person down quick.
Beeing trapped is a very challenging situation. We can look at just a few ordinary things. Snoring in the night. A lot of people can’t sleep if someone is snoring. Drinking coffee two or three times every day. Smoking and having a need to go outside to smoke, chat and drink coffee. People are losing their nerves in everyday’s life because of not be able to get this. If there are children they cry, jump and are naughty. Some mothers will become desperate and will try to get out. They will have a lot of problems between themselves. Food is a minor problem.
I can imagine fighting going on between those who want to surrender and those that don’t. A wise decision by Putin. Hopefully will become the model for the future capture of Ukrainian cities, surround, seal and surrender rather than flatten.
Yeah, seems like early days for the psychodynamics down below.
Let the situation ferment awhile longer.
What do the Russians have to lose?
Seems like they have a lot to gain by being patient above-ground.
The most serious concern is the fate of civilians down there.
I think the Russians should do all they can, in any way they can, to ascertain who is down there.
Make deals to release civvies, esp. women and children.
This will be a great PR win.
One way or another someone will get a best-seller out of this.
The “civilians”, as far as I understood from reports, they are family and relatives to the fighters, not prisoners.
I guess that if they have civilian citizens there as prisoners, the Azovs would have sent messages threatening to kill them.
Why doesn’t the UN request US-NATO quit sending WMD’s to Ukraine? Gutierrez is a CIA agent.
Russia can blow them up faster than they can be supplied. Three warehouses in one night ka…boom. Even Ukies don’t know how they are doing it. The Orcs have burned through their Soviet inventory, NATO is scrounging for Soviet era equipment to send to Orcs, which is being destroyed at such a rate, NATO stocks are running low….. Canada will now supply the Orcs with NATO artillery. No soldiers though, most are still transitioning….
Cheers M
“No soldiers though, most are still transitioning….” – ROTFLMAO
Priorities!!!!
I suspect that the Azov commanders down below will elect to blow themselves and all of the factory up rather than surrender. They are holding out right now for a SF extraction team which has no hope of extracting anyone even if they could get in.
Nope. They will choose to go out with a bang not a whimper.
@WTFUD,
Pretty simple explanation. The USA MIC makes profits by producing weapons. Send old unused weapons to Ukraine and make new weapons for the USA. Never-ending profit stream – all courtesy of the USA taxpayer and countries that finance the USA government by holding their treasuries.
Putin must understand the west and NATO will never stop. They will play the long game of arming the Ukraine until there is nothing left. They will turn it into another Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria. Surely, Putin understands this. The west are experts at proxy terrorist type wars. Cowards they are. Russia should turn east and grow their economy and power with China. China has the power to single handedly destroy the west financially. Putin may not have what it takes to finish the job. We will see. He is fighting the good fight and I hope the Russian people understand this. I have friends in Russia and they are divided. I didnt not realize liberals have infected Russia much like the west. Many Russians still believe America is this great country of freedom and prosperity it was 50 years ago or even 20. It is not. Every American city is overrun with crime and drugs. Everyone is in debt.
Putin has the RS-28 Sarmat to quickly retaliate directly on American soil if the US does not stop feeding this conflict. The UK might also feel the heat at home if they continue feeding the Ukraine conflict. Putin acts slowly in Ukraine because he cares about the life and the well being of both the Ukrainians and the Russians. However when it comes to the life of the US/UK/NATO staff, he might be less cautious and more decisive. I am sure people in the DoD understand the message, but the politicos don’t, at this point.
I think Russia now takes all the land the want – the east and all the coast. If they are then shoot from the other territory, they will also take that. Step by step until there is some kind of peace in the land.
It is strange that Russia allows unhindered communication and traffic in Ukraine.
Internet works, everything works.
Elite in Kyiv has nothing to fear, there is no pressure on them.
Very wrong strategy.
Such strategy is wrong only if you’re unsure that your troops wouldn’t commit war crimes. With the working internet in Bucha and a cellphone in everyone’s pocket where’re TikTok videos showing the streets littered with corpses during the timeframe of the Russian troops’ presence? Zero.
Now you are using your western mindset again. Like Russia cares about “the elite” in Kiev or anywhere else.
Their strategy have proven to be superior, because it has allowed for the Ukrops to keep on incriminate themselves, while Russia’s own soldiers show their quality for everyone to watch.
You are looking at this the wrong way round. Russia has been switching internet and mobile comms on and off at will. When it encircled cities and thereby trapped the Ukie Forces, they cut off comms but listened in to traffic and checked incoming emails. They checked outgoing tel calls and for example, if a British NATO regular or mercenary dialled to the UK, his +44 number located his position, so if there were others such as French NATO or mercenaries calling +33 for France…or Canadians and Americans calling +1 over time, from the same location, this was then easy for the Russians to pinpoint the target. One such example was the attack on Hotel Ukraina in Chernigiv. They also used drones to overfly and check out any unusual traffic (eg a man standing on the balcony of an apartment block with a gun) Once these targets were eliminated with precision strikes, they switched the internet and mobile links back on, all the while listening in to comm traffic. Listening to this traffic has gained many juicy targets (and vital info on activities) for Russia, since in particular the NATO staffers and mercenaries have been a little too relaxed for their own good…so it does actually make a lot of sense for Russia to keep all comms open as and when they feel like it. There have been phases where they shut down comms for 7 or 9 days at a stretch, to particular cities. Such silences were useful for sending in the Speznaz or the Chechens during the night, to select addresses.
https://www.indianpunchline.com/migratory-birds-of-mass-destruction/
Jaw-dropping article by MK Bhadrakumar this morning in which he discusses “the disclosure (at UNSC) by General Igor Kirillov, chief of the Radiation, Chemical and Biological Defense Forces of the Russian Armed Forces, that Washington is creating biological laboratories in different countries and connecting them to a unified system.”
UK and US representatives gave the UNSC meeting the “body swerve” as they used to say on the Scottish street. No surprise there, as it seems the Russian side has evidence the guilty parties are even using migratory birds as weapons to propagate diseases in dissident states!
Are you aware that North American is currently under full assault of serious spread of bird flu? Migratory or not, sowing the wind of wrath only gets to reap the whirlwind. Biological warfare is never a good tactical choice.
Thanks you very mucho for sharing the article and your comments.
Easter blessings from President Putin. The Azovstal plant will not be stormed. Thank the Lord.
Just wait them out, with time, infighting will break out, by the end they’ll beg the Russians to get them out.
Leprechaun prediction: by the end of next week the Azov/NATO hold outs will bring up their wounded, their women and children. Easter compassion…Pray for Peace.
Cheers M
Not a blessing for the MSM. All those beautiful and emotional headlines prepared in advance “Putin’s Easter Massacre”, “Poor Lambs of Azov Battalion”, “Azov Neo-Martyrs Are On Fast Track Canonization Says Pope” are useless now.
These disordered do not operate like human beings. Remember Jim Jones.
Indeed no ceasefire and unlike Syria no green busses for those fascists,good idea to take them alive,they could be a gold mine of intel .
Phase Two is on going, the pain dial will also increased.
We should see some desperate moves by the USSA backed Ukrop-Gov in exile.
There have to be something extremely stupid that they will do next.
And, it is hard to imagine to what would happen to those civilians trapped in Azovstal,
it seems to be a hard choice for men on the ground…
I am so sorry about Gonzalo, if he dies, let it be martyrdom for him.
Thank You
very well said.
A thing I noticed is that I have not seen a single Ukie video of a crashed Russian cruise missle. During the USs wars in which they claimed an 85% success rate failed Tomahawk cruise missles littered the deserts. The Ukronazis would have a PR field day if they had found even one. More proof of a qualitative edge, IMO.
“What” exactly are they supposed to shoot them down with? MANPADs? That doesn’t work for air-defense. FFS they’re now even mounting BRs on civilian trucks, because they have almost no armor left.
Russian cruise missiles might be exceptionally good or not. We don’t really know, since the ukros air-defense has been reduced to infantry.
No TLAMs wer shot down in Iraq. The Pentagon claimed that only 15% of their TLAMS malfunctioned, missed the target and crashed in Iraq if that make this easier to understand. We know that we arent seeing photos of Russian cruise missles crashed all over the battlefield as we saw crashed TLAMs all over Iraq. The Ukies would have a PR field day delivering a crashed Kalibr to NATO so we can conclude that there is a very high success rate for this ordinance. Higher than shown by NATO hardware in past wars. And NATO has only lost quality in the last decade.
“What” exactly are they supposed to shoot them down with? MANPADs? That doesn’t work for air-defense. FFS they’re now even mounting BRs on civilian trucks, because they have almost no armor left.
Russian cruise missiles might be exceptionally good or not. We don’t really know, since the ukros air-defense has been reduced to infantry.
” And NATO has only lost quality in the last decade.”
Plus, one can never determine if those NATO weapons were tinkered with at the “silicon chip stage/level” by Chinese saboteurs! After all, a vast majority of the chips powering actuators on those weapons have a Chinese origin!
Russia has now made a report to the Security Council about U.S. bioweapons activities:
https://www.indianpunchline.com/migratory-birds-of-mass-destruction/
There is plenty of evidence of U.S. guilt. The problem, though, is that the U.S. seems to enjoy immunity from the consequences for its crimes. How will the U.S. be held accountable?
For those interested in the beginning of USA bio-weapons development, I highly, highly recommend the Netflix “dramatized” documentary titled “Wormwood.” When this kind of weapon was first produced, it was called “germ warfare.” The documentary depicts the decrepit and soulless evil behind the CIA/scientific community that developed “germ warfare.” Here’s a link to a review:
https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/wormwood-netflix-review/
For my part, all of these labs should be closed worldwide and the USA brought before the International Criminal Court on charges of crimes against humanity.
One example that receives no attention these days is the screwworm parasite, which somehow traveled from North America to infest Libya and later Iraq in the 1990’s, damaging Iraq’s agriculture. Producing starvation in Iraq was no doubt “worth the price” for the exceptional people in Washington.
A 90+ year old Austrian farmer I met is convinced that a type of potato worm/beetle pest was dropped by English or Americans during WWII to destroy Austrian crops. It’s still a problem.
This might explain why birds are lately being reported as falling out of the sky in mass. It may be a direct result of their usage as carrier’s of US created bio weapons.
Rather the impact of 5G
An interesting suggestion.
Russia is closing consulates of Latvia in St. Petersburg and Pskov, General consulates of Estonia and Lithuania in St. Petersburg
– Russian Foreign Ministry
I just want to say, that every time I hear in the news about Somali/Somalia battalion’s heroic fighting, I think: I am glad about it, because of Givi.
He was i Somali battalion. He was courageous (in a somewhat crazy way).
Now it is a little more than 5 years since he was killed (don’t go and check Wikipedia, they write horrible lies about him).
He had the same birthday as I , although several years later.
Sorry for the rant, maybe I should have posted this in MFC….
I just wanted to glorify the Donbass fighters, who for 8 years have fought against the nazis, and “nobody” (in the west) noticed their sacrifices.
Yes indeed,i wish those guys had been alive to see the final victory that is coming.
I remember it also. It’s not a rant, he, together with other brave people enabled the end of the genocide in Donbass.
Smoothie has a link to RT where Larry Johnson explains that weapons such as manpads that have been sent to Ukraine have been sold and are popping up in Europe, in Paris for example.
So the virtue-signalling of the west has resulted in the proliferation of powerful weapons to criminal and terrorist groups in Europe and presumably elsewhere.
No, he stated, that everybody, especially in the West, has to fear that.
Because Ukraine is known for selling weapons world wide, since the 90s, he did a “what if”.
The movie “Lord of War” is a fictional rendition..
Apologies, mods, can you please insert this link into my post? Thanks.
https://sonar21.com/rt-interviews-larry-johnson/
From a tactical point of view if Azovstal is not to be stormed it would be easier to take full control over the surface, guard the bunker hatch and wait until they surrender.
I assume that’s what they mean?
Kinda. They don’t even need men on the spot – just drones to monitor the hatches – artillery can do the rest.
I wonder if they could tunnel an escape route?
Through the bunker built to withstand a thermonuclear blast? Sure. If their stash of drugs is good they might even believe they did it.
I should like to have a discussion of how the Imperial West has been able to generate such a universal hatred of all things Russian. I do not mean the technical resources but rather the ideological dominance. In the case of China it is more readily comprehensible: more then a 150 years of the Yellow Peril. The Oriental Other with its teeming hordes, the sinister Fu Manchu blah blah blah. But Russia culturally is not really any more alien than Greece. Frankly I fight it rather frightening!
Maybe,there needs to be A discussion first, why “everybody” thinks, Russia is “globaly”, now even “universally”, hated?
The haters are the so called “elite” of NATOstan, ruling over a 7th of world poulation.
Well, universally certainly in the UK. Have you any evidence that it is different in other ‘western’ countries. I cannot recall Russian cats and dogs being subject to cancellation or Tchaikovsky banned at any previous period. I doubt Beethoven or Goethe was banned in WW2 on the UK
Here’s a little evidence from YT.
I’ll answer his question. I think Vladimir Putin is one of the greatest leaders in modern Russian history and will be remembered in history books around the world as a man who stood against the Western imperialism.
256
L Karamazov
L Karamazov
23 hours ago
Very true. There’s nothing the west can do to change that. Billions will always revere him.
27
THE Wicked Witch Of SE
THE Wicked Witch Of SE
23 hours ago
Stalin. He was the greatest leader against Western Imperialism. EVER.
9
CoolChannel Name
CoolChannel Name
23 hours ago
Let’s go Russia!
17
Truth Always
Truth Always
20 hours ago
He will be remembered by both common men from west and east as a person who stood against imperialism, Nazism and neo liberals who are lead by nothing but greed.
20
sciencequest
sciencequest
18 hours ago
I am endorsing this statement. He s statesmen who unlike the west blustering and bantering, talks calmly and acts accordingly, with rational that I seem instead of emotionally. the west disregards Russian security concerns, brushed them aside and in fact thumbs its noise at them as if they are inferior and must accept western dictators and version on Ukraine.
11
JEBS
JEBS
18 hours ago
rightly said.
5
G Suzuki
G Suzuki
9 hours ago
Millions of people from Asia love Putin including people from Japan.
4
Mark Satoshi
Mark Satoshi
4 hours ago
Couldn’t agree more. That’s why leaders from other Nations who stand by him also gives him so much respect. Putin has a very loyal team.
4
youspoontube
youspoontube
3 hours ago
Chinese living in Canada for 30 years agree with you. Well said!
3
FGW
FGW
43 seconds ago
💯
There is a kind of precedent for the rabid Russophobia on display in the West: it is the extraordinary hatred of all things German in the First World War. Here in Australia many places settled by German migrants had their names changed, e.g. Germantown became Holbrook. German Shepherds became Alsatians, and there are even stories of Dachshund dogs being stoned in the street by super-patriots. This kind of behaviour tells you a lot more about the perpetrators than it does the target of their hate. It is as if there is a great mass of permanent free-floating hate in a population, just waiting for a victim to be designated by the controllers of opinion.
I keep finding it hilarious how people here keep mistaking legacy media for reality. Maybe you yourselves are watching this shit far more than the average person – which kinda makes you part of the problem.
The hatred of all things Russian is completely transactional. US citizens are the most heavily and expertly propagandized people in the entire world, and therefore the most easily manipulated. Russia would be considered by the west noble and proud, worthy of respect, if they had just allowed their economy, basic social needs and natural resources to be fully exploited by the west, thereby making them a virtual colony of the US dollar. Any country that wants to make economic decisions for the benefit of its own people gets the same hatred as Russia gets, but since they are so much smaller they usually lose the fight and are forgotten.
Same way they made the unvaccinated hated. Or trump voters. Or straight men.
Propaganda
Propaganda
Propaganda
Well, Natostan continue to plan and try to rescue those basters, who hole in in azovstal. It’s a patience fight. How long, may be 1-2 or more years it will continue….
There is a Twitter account and a new Telegram account claiming they are Gonzalo out there. But I have strong doubts on that. As much as I’d like to believe them,I need proof first:
1.If he has escaped to Belarus as the claim is.Why continue to hide.Belarus is a friendly state.
2. Why not post pictures of the newly escaped you. If you can start a Twitter and Telegram account you should be able to post pictures of yourself.
3.Why even start those accounts. Why not just post on your old accounts. The real Gonzalo would know the codes for the accounts.But a fake one wouldn’t.
So until I see “proof of life” from the new Gonzalo,I’m not believing he is the real one.
Somebody could have just stole his camera while he was finally sleeping, used the files for their own self, and then gonzo is gone w/o a camera, but free to walk the walk and talk the talk, its just no one will hear him.
His equipment was seized when he was arrested by the SBU on 15/4/22 according to an interview on YT earlier today 22/4/22. The link is further up/earlier in the comments of this thread.
https://youtu.be/R2yeSOcNlgE
;o)
Never give up hope, was just looking at some info on Unz, someone in the Anglin thread on Gonzalo posted some type of message from him…..in his pic he looks grizzled, much longer beard than usual, Lord I hope he’s okay.
Anyone know if it’s an old post or something recent…..?
Cheers M
From the begining of the operation the strategy and tactics re not very logic in militarily terms.
The announcement from Putin concerning the Azov Nazi rats in Azovstal is kind of strange even suspicion.
Now the life of his soldiers matters but before (Kiev and Kharkiv) it was not a topic.
Each passing day these Azov nazis survive They become more heroes for Ukraines civilians, Ukraine Army and Zone A. The Azov Nazis re the best motivation booster for the Ukraine Army.
This announcement from Putin will only strengthen their azov nimbus of invincibility.
Moreover it will open the door for further speculations. Maybe there has been a secret deal with the West concerning the mercenaries inside Azovstal? Giving them enough time for overnight evacuations? Who knows.
Very strange. Sorry.
“From the beginning of the operation the strategy and tactics re not very logic …. blah, blah”
“From the beginning” of your post, the wild speculations mixed with outright falsehoods and sprinkled with non-sequiturs are completely devoid of sense, let alone logic.
Fully agree with your replay.
It’s indeed unlikely the supplied reason is meant to explain anything. Why provide that information to the world for free? More realistic sounding reasons:
– calculation of total damage using larger bombs to the industrial infrastructure (beyond what can be rebuild) and possibly some after-effects on the surroundings provided a costly operation
– Kiev tried already to tie status of Azovstal to negotiation tactics. But this means Russia could use this to deal if needed. Or at least use it to show as-if.
– It’s not unlikely citizens are holed up with Azov, perhaps they dragged their own family with them or even unrelated people. This could be used again with the usual hyperbole by Kiev. Why provide this for free? If destruction of the complex has no direct military gain at the moment but symbolic.
– As said by others: surrendering troops and open access later might provide more intelligence than a bomb.
Brute logic makes little sense when it comes to war as it may lead to the most unpredictable if not devastating outcomes.
A good example is IA, pure logic master, when tasked to win some game or achieve a specific task, example of outcomes: freezing the whole game if the “win” goal can’t be achieved, or triggering a short-circuit, cheating or adopting the most unpredictable behavior…even if purely “logic”.
War has rarely, if ever, been based solely on rational grounds. Usually primitive instincts or specific interests (often selfish ones), that is non-rational, if not irrational, are the underlaying reason. The Russian President clearly framed it in existential terms. As such this current war can’t only be approached via the prism of reason, even less of logic. It is not a mere military confrontation, it goes well beyond that.
The right mix of logic (tactics/strategy) and pragmatism (situational adaptation) is essential, as well as steadfastness (critical psychological feature in all wars).
Accepting losses with the Kiev feint made sense as that would imply future lower losses on some of the main battlefields, so pragmatism required to accept such losses even if no material gain was to immediately come from it. Launching an assault on an underground maze with little intel of what’s up downstairs would lead to uncertain outcome and most likely significant losses without any guaranteed gain.
An assault would make sense only at the highest level of the complex: with entry/exit points at surface level for your troops allowing the “hit-and-run” option if you were wishing to suck out all O2 or turn the place into an oven for the enemy forces without dealing with the backfire of your own actions.
Below such levels, such option would be less and less possible, and consequently every advance in depth would incrementally and significantly reduce the odds of survival of your own forces. And that with no guaranteed results as a small number of enemy forces can hold a large underground area in such a maze.
Point is here it’s not a matter of 1k or 2k enemies, a difference of a couple of dozens can make a huge difference with such physical configuration.
Can’t play “whack-a-mole” here, as the enemy can advance/retreat at will, go up and down, play hide-and-seek for a long time – so more “whack-a-rat”, unfortunately rats are far less predictable than moles, even less when gifted with a human brain.
So mere logic says : why turn an enemy self-chosen death trap into a death trap for your own forces with no guaranteed success and incremental odds of failure and high losses the deeper one goes.
As for what’s hidden down there, the no-assault approach is the one which logically increases the odds of discovering/getting what’s actually down there.
” Accepting losses with the Kiev feint made sense as that would imply future lower losses on some of the main battlefields, ”
I totally, disagree. Sending your own troops to certain death on purpose, just to achieve some vacuous geo-political goal is as evil and blood thirsty as the West does with its ” collateral damage ” justification. If Putin is truly a religious spiritual man then there is no way he would do that. Therefore, there must be another explanation like Russia just miscalculated at the beginning of this conflict. There are other potential reasons but I’ll let the good readers figure those out.
By engaging into any military conflict, any leader must by default accept losses: otherwise no leader would ever make such decision, which eventually can only lead to one outcome: higher losses, if not absolute and total ones.
There is no way to avoid such situation and to have to take such kind of decision when you were forced into a conflict you did your best to avoid. So nothing to do with sending to a certain death on purpose your own troops: it is simply critical and essential pragmatism, deciding whether or not overall for a specific action the benefits will eventually outweigh the potential cost.
There is no conflict with being pragmatic when forced into war and being religious/spiritual. Sacrifice is a concept with religious roots: the intent always being a priori for the greater good. Nothing to do with the a posteriori marketing of intentional evil actions and complete disregard for human life with some BS concept of “collateral damage”.
That said, I did not mention anything such as achieving some geo-political goal, pint was about limiting future losses. If faced with two options such as heavy losses on every battlefield, or limiting overall losses through specific actions – even if they lead to some losses, there is no evil when preferring the second option: big picture being the losses will always lower with such choice.
Evil belongs to the ones who forced you to face such dilemma. Evil is first in the intent…
From the begining of the operation the strategy and tactics re not very logic in militarily terms.”
True. Which is why it’s called a Special Military Operation.
Analogy: what Russia is trying to do is akin to prying dozens of ticks off an angry scorpion.
Takes patience, finesse, courage and ability to withstand considerable slings and arrows of outrageous fortune!
I am posting this article because it offers an answer to the question many of us had.
.
Why is the West so afraid of the military defeat of Ukraine
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“We cannot allow Russia to win in Ukraine,” said German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. It would seem, what is the difference between Germany and the EU, and even the West as a whole, who will win in this confrontation? However, there are at least five reasons why a Russian victory in the special operation would essentially mean the end of the West we all know today.
1. Undermining faith in the omnipotence of the United States
Fear of irresistible power has always been one of the most effective deterrents. And today, almost the whole world has such a fear of the United States. More precisely, in front of the collective West, which America can rally and direct to suppress the daring violator. That is why neither Iran, nor Turkey, nor even China is at risk of challenging the West with an offensive nature, focusing only on the defense of what they now own.
Yes, someone has an idea in their back that over the past almost 20 years (since the invasion of Iraq) Western power has weakened somewhat, that its pressure can be withstood, but no one wants to be the first to test the sharpness of a wolf’s teeth on their own skin.
However, it just so happened that Russia threw down this challenge. And if Moscow withstands the total pressure and wins, then the whole world will see that the United States is not omnipotent. If he sees it, he will also begin to throw a whole series of challenges to America and its European allies (and much more dangerous than Russian ones, for example, Iran or Saudi Arabia – to become nuclear countries). The West will not be able to respond to these challenges. And there will be no trace of Western domination in the world. Western in general, not just American.
2. The split of Europe
There are a huge number of disagreements within the European Union, which have now been artificially pushed into the background for the sake of unity in the face of the Russian threat. And all these disagreements will reappear in the event of a Russian victory, when Europe will decide who is to blame for this and what to do with him.
“The EU has become too ideologized association. Democracy has become a dogma of the level of faith in the victory of communism. Plus, the confrontation with Russia has been transferred to the category of the struggle between good and evil. And “good” must win. If it does not win, questions arise not only for politicians, but also for the very ideological foundations of the European Union. In this case, the risks of the disappearance of the “glue” that held the EU together increase sharply,” Ivan Lizan, head of the analytical bureau of the Sonar-2050 project, tells the VZGLYAD newspaper.
The risks of disintegration will also increase if the costs for the EU of containing Moscow grow and these costs cannot be covered by aggressive expansion. After all, after the victory of Russia in Ukraine, the free space for this expansion ended.
“The EU has been expanding and economically developing Central and Eastern Europe for a long time. This development was economic colonization. The termination of this process with a margin rich in natural resources Ukraine will undermine the EU. Plus, the European Union imposed so many sanctions against Russia that it actually went for broke: if Russia adapts, then the EU will be greatly weakened due to the specific structure of the economy. The EU is extremely dependent on cheap credit, and cheap credit and inflation are incompatible: no credit – no economic growth, and instead of them, stagflation and the growth of internal contradictions, ”explains Ivan Lizan.
3. The return of Russian influence
“The ideology of values dominates in Europe. And these values need to be promoted further and further – at least in the Christian world. A Russian victory in Ukraine would mean at least a halt to the advance of values to the east. And as a maximum – their undermining in Europe itself, ”says Vadim Trukhachev, a political scientist and associate professor at the Russian State Humanitarian University, to the VZGLYAD newspaper.
In fact, we can even talk about the disintegration of the European Union. Or at least the emergence in Eastern Europe of a powerful nationalist center professing other values. And this is another existential threat – Brussels and Western Europe see Eastern European nationalism as a direct threat to European values and European unity as such.
The EU itself as a construct was built on the rejection of ethnic nationalism (as a source of conflict) in favor of a supranational European identity. On the rejection of national passionarity in favor of promoting “universal” values, by which the European Union understands progressive liberal ideas (the imposition of LGBT values, ultra-tolerance, restriction of rights and freedoms for “illiberal” elements of society, etc.).
Moreover, the strengthening of Eastern European nationalism in some countries may lead to a paradoxical result – the rapprochement of a number of states with Russia. “Russia’s victory may mean an increase in sympathy for it in a number of European countries – in Bulgaria, Slovakia, Greece, even in the Czech Republic or Spain. Of course, in Serbia. Russia may return to Europe as an influential force to be reckoned with. Which will largely cross out the results of the Cold War,” explains Vadim Trukhachev.
4. Reintegration of the post-Soviet space
And return not only to Europe, but also to the post-Soviet space. Russia’s victory in Ukraine will nullify the entire policy of the European Union in the post-Soviet space. “What is the use of the long-term cultivation of compradors through the Soros Foundation and other organizations if they are helpless in front of the Russian army?” Ivan Lizan asks.
And all the billions of dollars already invested in the creation of pro-Western elites will be nullified – after all, the myths on which these elites were brought up will give way to real politics, within the framework of which it will no longer be possible to earn money on Russophobia, by renting out their territory to contain Russia. Georgia was the first of the pro-Western states to understand this (it refused to join the anti-Russian sanctions).
It has not yet reached Moldova – judging by the words of the President of the country Maia Sandu about the need to ban the St. George ribbon, the process of awareness is still far from complete. However, the deadlines will approach sharply when Russian troops liberate Odessa and break through a land corridor in Transnistria.
Meanwhile, the post-Soviet space was important to Europe not only as a territory for economic expansion, but precisely as a tool to contain Russia. “Russia for Europe is “the wrong other”. And therefore, the Europeans fear the strengthening of Russia as “different, but similar” more than the strengthening of obviously different China, India or Saudi Arabia, says Ivan Trukhachev. – And from this point of view, Ukraine is a controlled buffer necessary for Europe. Its deprivation means a direct neighborhood with Russia in this area and the prospect of restoring “big Russia”. And it doesn’t matter which one – Russian national or multinational imperial.
Any “big Russia” is equally bad for the West.”
It’s bad because big Russia is imperial Russia. That is, Russia, which can neither be crushed, nor “christened” in its values, much less destroyed.
5. America’s decline in Europe
A Russian victory will lead, if not to withdrawal, then to a weakening of US influence in Europe. And the collapse of the transatlantic unity. Yes, this thesis seems controversial to some, because Europe does not want America to leave.
“Against the backdrop of the obvious trend of the weakening of the West, it will be especially scary for Europeans to be left alone. The United States for them is a supplier of technology, security, and convenient international rules. In addition, the Americans create opportunities for scaling European interests and projecting opportunities,” explains Dmitry Ofitserov-Belsky, senior researcher at IMEMO RAS.
However, the problem here is not in the desires of Europe, but in the position of the United States.
In America, isolationist sentiments are already strong – and the aggravation of domestic problems in the United States will only strengthen these sentiments. The states, of course, will not leave the EU at all, but they may no longer actively manage European affairs.
In that case, of course, if the Russian-American conflict over the post-Soviet periphery ends with the victory of Russia. Then, sooner or later, strategic agreements will have to be concluded with Moscow on the security system (including in the European space), which means that the US’s ability to inflate the Russian-European confrontation, on which the American presence was largely based, will be seriously reduced.
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https://vz.ru/world/2022/4/20/1154745.html
Can’t thank you enough, Patrick, for your brilliant commentary, or rather an important article in itself. This is a manifestly logical analysis, leading, imo, to Russia’s imminent success. Well done!
It is exciting to witness such a global paradigm shift, from the West’s zero-sum, inhumane unipolar tyranny imposed by deceit, chaos, and slaughter to a humane win-win, cooperative interdependence based on international law. Here, the contrast of good and evil could hardly be more stark.
Russia, China, Iran, India and large swathes of Asia, Africa and Latin American simply cannot afford the continued dominance of the US led West’s so called ‘rules based international order’ either, a euphemism for continued US Hegemony and imperialism on steroids. Indeed, the Ukraine operation is only the beginning, confirmed by Russian FM Sergei Lavrov last week, of the crafting of ‘a new security Architecture’ in Europe, added a new global economic order not dominated by by the West.
The new global economic order complete with a money transfer system outside of western control will be rolled out this year as a joint Russia/China project without the US dollar as reserve currency. The net effect of this will be a drastically reduced standard of living for the US and Europe, along with commensurate political consequences for the leaders. No wonder the sense of horror and panic from the likes of Scholz, but what can they do? Nothing. War is not a great option either.
Thank you, Patrick.
A very well written post!
The most practical reason is that tell depth of EU/NATO crimes in Ukraine would be exposed. Why was Macron so desperate to organise “humanitarian corridors” in Mariupol? Why are the British so anxious to shut down negotiations and demand a military solution?
There is something in Ukraine that would expose the truth of their dirty dealings to the world. Not just their corruption, we all know that and have even come to expect it. Something more, something bigger. Much bigger. Perhaps the, truth of MH17, or a fully fledged ethnic biological warfare program. Something that would cause the world to recoil in disgust and horror. Whatever it is I hope it is found.
It is totally the right decision to not to risk lives taking the plant. The Nazi scum are really already in a prison and surrounded by guards. They are imprisoned in material circumstances that can only get worse and more severe than a real prison.At least in a real prison you get fed and maybe can see daylight for an hour daily. If they want their lives to improve then they must surrender.
If needs must, the decision to not storm the plant can easily be reversed. But you cannot reverse the taking of the lives that would occur
I think if it was just the group of Nazis, Russia would have no problem flattening the place, but I’m convinced the ‘patience’ is because they want to take the Nato people alive as well as discover the bio-weapon secrets alleged to be down there.
Agreed, capturing the NATO agents alive would be a massive victory. Although I doubt the existence of the civilians down there, the Nazis do have a history of using them as shields so it could be true. If they can be brought out alive it will be interesting to interview them. Will they see themselves as “defenders” or “hostages”?
The Duma has voted to keep Nabiullina as Chairman of the Bank of Russia for a new term of office. For those who subscribe to the veracity of the opinions of economist Sergei Glazov, this is bad news.
Oh, I have an opinion about that. I even wrote a whole blog post about it. https://yaxls.wordpress.com/2022/04/19/an-age-of-monetary-cranks/
The world is having to adjust to the newly evolving post capitalist financial system, regardless of what economic dogma their elites subscribe to.
A perspective :
First we had 2016 Brexit, quickly followed by Trump, both major earthquakes.
Followed by Italy, Greece, and even France’s proposed Exits – all stamped under the carpet.
Now the really Big One – Rexit ! Russia Exit!
Russia pulls the plug on the old globalism, paradigm, that Brexit and Trump tried and faltered at.
China on Feb 4 teamed up with Russia – Chexit (pardon my spelling).
What are poor infantile imperialists to do? Exit doors everywhere, why even Germany taking cold showers might be sobering?
Larry Johnson at
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/larry_c_johnson_20_04:0
actually said French Gendarmes had picked up small arms and surface-air missiles that made their way via black-markets from Ukraine to France. This is exactly what Scott Ritter warned about last month – a new form of Jihadist terrorism, but Banderist and in Europe. Just imagine, as Scott Ritter said, Air Force 1 landing at Berlin or Paris with these weapons on the ground!
I assume EU intelligence is on high alert. Trouble is, NATO’s Gladio used exactly this strategy of tension all through the Cold War against European nations.
‘Just imagine, as Scott Ritter said, Air Force 1 landing at Berlin or Paris with these weapons on the ground!’
I’d like to imagine it with AF-1 leading a long lineup of aircraft occupied by some other heads of state, not excluding my own, with well-lit targets painted on their sides.
That sounds like a disgruntled Banderist.
That crowd will be dumped, and remember MH17….
There may one day be good guys on AF1, and sure as hell they will be target number 1 – like JFK.
Disgruntled? Most definitely.
Banderist?! If they retain any notion of having a real head of state, their AF1 equivalent would be more than welcome to join the targeted lineup.
I have been watching Shaun Pinner’s RT interview, here:
https://t.me/NewResistance/7710?single
He’s obviously reading from a mental script: “I’m a medic, I never fought, I was captured while trying to help injured people, I never saw any nazis despite living next to Azov for 4 years.” A much more polished tale than Aslin’s bumbling. No way is this character who he pretends to be. Almost certainly a high level British army or MI6 man.
This same Pinner, in January:
“‘I fear for my life. The Russians will treat us differently if we are captured because we are British. This is always on my mind – that I will be captured.”
http://celex.s205.xrea.com/ex-squaddies-in-trenches-with-ukraine-reveal-russian-invasion-threat/
Now he pretends that he only just realised he won’t be treated like a Ukrainian regular PoW.
He fears Siberian winter – are some Gulag’s still open for business?
Your links redirect to Porn sites. You are probably aware of that. Why would you post such sh*t here?
That’s funny!
But I’m seeing the right link about Pinner…
Huh what? Where do you get that?
Oh, those foreign mercenaries, they all went there to cook, drive, repair shoes, mend cloths, tend to the medical issues, play music, sing and dance! What possibly else they could be doing? Soo innocent.
@ Uncle Bob on April 21, 2022 · at 9:04 am EST/EDT
So until I see “proof of life” from the new Gonzalo,I’m not believing he is the real one.
————————————————-
@ sean the leprechaun on April 21, 2022 · at 9:04 am EST/EDT
Never give up hope…
————————————————-
Both of you are right. “Seeing is believing,” says Thomas, not present when Prophet Isa (Jesus) appeared before other disciples. On the other hand, Hope is Faith, we give up hope, we give up our faith.
However, the danger here is not to see the game SBU can be playing with Gonzalo’s disappearance. If they got him, they have all his info, his phones, usernames, passwords, they can create a fake “Gonzalo” for their devious purposes. CIA, which controls all intel in 404, knows very well the psychology of the relatives/friends of the disappeared, they have been doing it for decades as part of their psychological war of terror on the oppressed, all over the world.
They know the mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/relatives/friends, expect a sign of life from the missing person, for years, decades. And they know how to play with their hopes. Be careful with any “signs of life” from Gonzalo, or his family, they can use his family too for the same evil purpose. I don’t exclude that Gonzalo, being Chilean, could have prepared an escape plan and is laying low somewhere, waiting for a chance to extricate himself from the nazi trap that is Kharkov.
On the other hand, and for the same reason of being Chilean, I was not happy with his exposure, regardless of the reasons. AFAIK, he was a family man, married and with children, in that predicament, one has to think twice about the dangers in facing the Empire of Lies, unless…one has a Plan B to save oneself from the SBU goons, once they show up knocking at your door.
Let’s hope for the best…in the meantime, I agree with Amarynth above, let us pray for rock solid news, let’s avoid propagating rumors, potential mind games from the CIA franchise, the SBU, and let’s pray The Most High is giving Gonzalo another shot at living.
Lone Wolf
just an observation… for over a month, in all his vids, he has facial stubble akin to shaving every second or third day, in both pics on Unz, he has about a six or seven day growth, those are newer pics….again, just an observation…..
If he were caught he’s worth $$$ just for the ransom alone.
Azov Death squads would have provided a pic immediately…..the thrill is far too great, the braggado alone among peers they’d never keep it secret.
Sadly in a war zone, bodies disappear, such is the force of modern ordinance. His phone would have been a risk, especially traveling, pretty sure he knows how phones are tracked. That would be ditched. He could be injured, lots of shelling, he could be convalescing, maybe holed up in a bombed house. Maybe some non biased partisans took him in ala Ann Frank. Lets hope.
Cheers M
Aunt BB reports on twitter that Gonzalo has resurfaced and that he has escaped Ukraine and that he has a new twitter page. But I agree we won’t know for sure unless and until we get proof of life.
Incidentally, Aunt BB shares the following quote by Gonzalo “As a Chilean, I can say unequivocally that General Augusto Pinochet was the best president our country ever had”. It’s from a tweet by him. Aunt BB is very pro Russian. I have been following Aunt BB for years and she has always been truthful. So I’m very disappointed about the existence of this quote.
There is a fake Gonzalo Lira twitter account pretending he’s fled to Belarus. Twitter despite being over and over reported this account as fake did nothing to take it down.
@Lira01Real
https://www.indianpunchline.com/migratory-birds-of-mass-destruction/
Ukraine was such a perfect place for us to advance science… until Russia ruined it for us
There was thinking BMD was Ballistic Missile Defense !
I wonder if “Vicky” specified that she wanted to be sent “proof of death”…
Russia committing genocide in Ukraine, just as Trudeau said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lsoV_6ZCZc
I personally think not storming azovstal is the very best choice to make. Of course there is no need to risk the lives of RU soldiers but there are many more reasons beyond this obvious fact. Possible intelligence, freeing up troops sooner, holding a card up your sleeve in case it is needed, and perhaps more important the moral victory of the uber-speologists turning against eachother or surrendering. It might also force natostan to reconsider giving up on them (as i am sure they did after a bunch of copters and ship(s) got obliterated trying) and in the process make more mistakes, revealing valuable intel.
On a secondary note i have to be honest and admit that i absolutely do not want to try and glorify any deaths at all, every life lost is one to many, even the nazi-ones as a life in horrible misery is in my humble opinion a better way to deal with such horrendous crimes than the mercy of a quick death. I have seen too many comments and opinions that support extermination and glorify the use of terminal violence. It is beyond me how one can hold up the moral card and at the same time preach what they are opposing…
My grandfather was a decorated resistance hero in ww2 and fought the same horrendous ideas, suffered greatly as did our whole family until this day. He was caught, put on a train to a death camp, managed to escape and survive in a basement, one eye shot out of his skull. He never ever glorified any death he might have caused nor did he condone anyone else to talk shit about his opponents. And this is simply put human dignity…
Siege is the smart move. They already buried themselves alive, no need to waste life trying to change that.
Yes. An astute move.
No more glory or publicity value … just fading from view.
No reason to commit any resources beyond keeping things sealed up.
For how long can the Azovnazis prolong their demise by going full cannibal on each other? Plenty of wounded lying around. They can be cannibalized first. Then the foreign mercenaries as they have to be disposed of anyways. With this many Azovnazis, the cannibalization Ponzi scheme might go on for weeks, if not months, all for the world to watch.
Heck, they might even be ordered to go cannibal by general staff back in Kiev, all for prolonging the “resistance” and the “Glory of Ukraine”. The West would applaud it.
@ m_silenus on April 21, 2022 · at 7:21 am EST/EDT
@ Filistin on April 21, 2022 · at 7:40 am EST/EDT
@ Lostboy on April 21, 2022 · at 8:52 am EST/EDT
@ R on April 21, 2022 · at 10:19 am EST/EDT
@ Bill Osborne Jr on April 21, 2022 · at 10:34 am EST/EDT
@ ZOFH on April 21, 2022 · at 9:22 am EST/EDT
Reading all your observations, my main concern is the political usage the Zec and his masters will make of the nazis’ (and their families) predicament. Presstitute MSM all over the world will receive directives from the CIA/MI6/Mossad/NATO intel to turn these criminals into victims subjected to martyrdom by the evil Russians, à la Masada, as Filistin pointed out.
They are already making a “Battle of Thermopylae” (remember the Zec already mentioned that during his speech to the Greek useful idiots), out of the resistance encountered at Azovstal, and declared the Russians avoidance of a frontal assault “a defeat.” For PSYOPS, this is the gift that keeps on giving, as long as the nazi scum is able to send signs of life, they will be cheered the world over as “champions of freedom and democracy,” Ukraine’s “true heroes,” an example to emulate.
We also have to remember NATO/West have mercenaries in that bunch, and they might try to get them out by hook or by crook. How many attempts have been made already, by rotorcraft from 6 to 10 (please correct me if I am wrong), and one by sea. The Kal’mius river runs nearby, they can also try with a small sub, similar to the used by Colombian narco cartels, and divers. As long as the nazis/mercs are able to communicate, attempts to rescue them will not stop.
SAS/SEALS/NATO Special Forces will keep on designing evacuation plans, even if they are destined to fail, not so much for their interests in the nazis/mercs, but to punch the Russians in the nose, shame them before the world. As long as the nazis/mercs remain there, Mariupol cannot be consider free. The Zec will consider them a beachhead in Mariupol, and will lionize them, forever.
Why haven’t the Russians killed their internet connections? That is a mystery to me. Hopefully the new conditions will move the Russians to take appropriate measures to further isolate them, it should be part of the siege…unless, their communications are hacked, and the Russians are using their online commo as a window into their hopeless existence.
Lone Wolf
Should just flood the complex.
Fully agree!
IBtw n Germany the green MSM are making a “Battle of the Teutoburg Forest” with Zec as Arminius and Azov rats as alliance of slavic germanic peoples
Western propaganda is of no concern for Russians in terms of conduct of their operations : West prop operates within a closed system with a captive and finite audience: themselves – crazies talking to themselves and validating their own deluded self-made assumptions.
Accouting for it would mean for the Russians to allow themselves to willingly be parasited by nonsensical noise: for what gain and/or purpose?
It would be a matter of concern for Russia if such propaganda could influence other audiences (i.e. Non-western sphere) and turn the tide worldwide: which is unlikely.
Thermopylae, the 300, etc… are references which mean nothing to Africans, Indians, Chinese, etc…it’s like a Western “private joke”… they don’t even bother to develop a propaganda able to reach non Western audiences: proving again their unwavering belief in their own superiority…yet not difficult to find similar references in Indian, Chinese, etc… history if they were not so deluded.
Furthemore, the rest of the world – that is most of it – has already gotten the main message.
By promoting Nazis to the status of heroes, all the “non-white-caucasian-looking” people just got confirmation of what they have already known for a couple of centuries, and just confirmed furthermore in the last 2-3 decades. Put simply: the difference btw full-blown nazis and the Enlightened-white-smiling-democratic Western nations is only a matter of degree not of nature. It#s not like non-Westerners have no clue about what/who were WW2 nazis: millions of non-Western fought.
As for “freedom and democracy” again just some empty motto for Western crowds – even more after the whole Covid show- meaningless for the rest of the world, many (and quite recently) got a – burning and metallic – taste of what “freedom and democracy” actually means for the Enlightened Westerners…
They also have the direct memories and experiences of their own parents, grand-parents, etc… when it was all about a “civilising/enlightement mission” for the glorious West…again the same burning and metallic taste when the Enlightened West decide to civilize them in order to free them from their supposed backwardness and introduce them to…well you guess… freedom and democracy…
So the West is propagandizing itself in a nonsensical loop. Rest of the world can only wonder about how developped and “civilized” countries could have reached such level of insanity… that without accounting with all the brand-new values that now the glorious West wants also to spread universally…
Consequently, such propaganda is just a sign of weakness: only crazies feel the need to constantly seek to validate their own delusions. Why Russia should care? Western governments, by doing so, just prove that they are uncertain of their control of their own population…will they back them if further escalation comes or not? Again, demonstration of weakness, delusion and navel-gazing of people convinced of their own superiority above all others…
…the “über alles” perpetual loop …sounds familiar…degree vs nature again… so Russia again might be the key to a way out…hopefully a definitive one…
“Why haven’t the Russians killed their internet connections? ”
Maybe they are harvesting information about the enemy by monitoring the communications ?
It can also be an opportunity for learning about the various encryptions systems used.
Seems like a deal has been done to bury certain secrets under that plant?
Deny any surrender even if forthcoming
Western players doesn’t want the optics of what is in there?
What does Russia get in return?
Looks like a sellout?
Is the west calling it a wrap with russian complicity?
Arms supply and talk of offensives just for optics?
I’m wondering if the Ukro Nazis are on some kind of ‘Crazy Pills’.
Even for hardcore Nazis it does not seem like ‘normal’ behavioure. There seem emotionally dead, even towards their ‘own’. Could there be some kind of drug that turns you into a psycophat ?
Probably some drugs but also extreme fear of what the future holds for them.
Methamphetamine.
Look up the name “pervityn”, stuff given to the first nazi armies during second world war.
Captagon drug.
The focus on Azovstal by the Western media is really strange. IMHO
General Paulus surrendered Stalingrad on 2 February 1943, but the fighting there didn’t stop until well into March due to the holdouts. The Russians moved on from the city and left a non-frontline internal security / police division there to clean up.
Azovstal is now in the same position. So, the Western media paying attention to them now would be like the German media lauding the German holdouts at Stalingrad, who were completely irrelevant to the war. What was relevant was that the whole southern section of the Germany army near collapse.
Thus, I suggest the Western media’s focus on the Azovstal defenders is to take people’s eyes off the battle now getting underway in the Donbass, which the Nuland Regime is about to lose, bigtime. IMHO
You are so right, dear friend. “the Western media paying attention to them now would be like the German media lauding the German holdouts at Stalingrad, who were completely irrelevant to the war.” So much like the General staff hold outs lying to der Fuhrer. I think you are spot on with Donbass and the eyes taking off while Nuland performs Houdini’s final trick. Good weekend to you bro.
The focus on Azovstal may have other purposes too, besides redirecting attention.
They seem agitated about (1) 𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 is down there – some particularly odious biolabs? human experimentation black holes? They would prefer it be incinerated rather than taken whole. But you cannot order it blown up while your men are in it.
(2) 𝗪𝗵𝗼 ever (senior US/NATO staff) is down there for which sacrificed so many choppers. It was said to be the big Donbas base of NATO? So they seek to either get them free passage or end up dead in a firefight/ executed from behind by lower-rung Nazis. They appear to be using hostages in this endeavor, as everywhere else.
(3) Creating a heroic last-stand narrative, like 300 Spartans or the Alamo of Texas fame. Nazis/extremists are big into sacrifice and using these as motivational moments for other troops/ recruitment/ intimidation of captive civilians elsewhere.
(4) To grind-down some numbers of the limited top Russian troops. VVP checked this by pulling them back – now they surrender or starve.
(5) To establish psychologically an exhausting template for other rat-holes, such as Odessa, which has 25,000 km of catacombs (!!). The entire purpose behind their Project Ukraine was to be an endless hell-hole of attrition war. The devil is said to be in the detail; every significant city or defense point has tunneling works or catacombs. These Nazis are not quite like our grand-daddy’s Nazis – they are burrowing spiritually-blind mole rats!
So putting all this together, Nazi central is desperate that this site gets destroyed one way or another. They must’ve forgotten to leave a self-destruct bomb or device! Nazi standards are not what they used to be..
So a couple of American ICBMs and then blame Russia for it… Solves everything for the Yanks.
Edgar Allen Poe wrote a short story called The Cask of Amontillado which many Americans read in school.
I wonder how many others are thinking of it now?
“The plot summary of ”The Cask of Amontillado” is about revenge, deceit, and murder, as Montresor tricks a drunk Fortunato by trapping him inside an ancient catacomb.” From Wikileaks
Thanks, mods for this site. it is a haven of sanity as our world is changing.
News from the front:
Not bad is obtained in the Donetsk direction. I state that so far no second stage (at least here) has begun. In any case, according to the cards. Ours are grinding the enemy defenses well now in the Donetsk direction. Competently.
Plus, the Air Force began to work well, they do not fall. I’ll tell you a secret, officers with good Afghan and Chechen experience fly. They do not feel the slightest remorse about “wetting crests.” There are no carpet bombings, but they work competently.
The only thing is that Kharkov is very annoying. There are failures in the Kharkov direction.
From the side of Izyum, we are pressing… The enemy is trying to act competently, pulling forces well from the Rubizhne-Lysichansk direction in order to roll into the Slavyansko-Kramatorsk agglomeration in “short dashes” (to avoid the blows of the VKS). The enemy strengthens the flanks, competently retreats.
Now we are grinding the first frontier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, where they have been digging for 8 years. We have already knocked them out where they broke into the ground specifically. If we roll them out from the 2nd line (the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration), then, despite the fact that they will pull up units there (they carried out the third wave of mobilization), this will not save them: the defensive line itself will no longer be of such quality.
Enemy losses are already ranging from 25-30 thousand people. For Ukraine, this is a lot. But they will run if they lose another 20-25 thousand people. That’s the whole calculation, then they will break down, and no supplies will save Kyiv in this case. There will be no fools in Europe to fight for them if Russia systematically wipes off the face of the earth that which resists and shoots.
Just blast very annoying music at the guys in the bunker, very loud, for weeks.
“Everything will be fine” will do the trick https://youtu.be/7Am5AEPHd6k
In retrospect, this official video shot in 2014 is kinda prophetic.
Absolutely – I was thinking more Lynn Anderson “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden”, on repeat, for weeks, should drive them mad.
I wonder where they get their fresh water from, you can only survive 3-7 days without water.
How about “These Boots are Made for Walking”. In honor of Waco Texas?
It seems to me that the ultimate goal of the EU is always to open up countries to unlimited African Muslim immigration. Therefore, it is strange that Ukrainian ethno-nationalists wish to join a union that finds their political philosophy anathema. Bizarre bedfellows, indeed.
Because they dont realize what the ZioWest has in store for them. The Ukrobanderists thought they would have a homogeneous, Ukrainian ethno-state. ruled by a White, Ukrainian, Christians. Little do they know that White nations are slated for elimination.
I hope and pray that every precaution is taken to make sure there is no break-out. Military history is full of surprise sorties by desperate defenders that have some sucess.
1,500 or so guys with a bunch of sick and wounded aren’t going very far.
Ukrainian front lines are far away and any local will probably love to turn them in.
I can think of three very good reasons why Putin is right to avoid storming the Asovstal complex. Firstly, as he stated, there’s no point in incurring unnecessary loss of life among Russian troops when those holed up are in no position to threaten anybody outside. Secondly, if there are civilians in there, quite apart from humanitarian concerns, it will serve Russia very well to have their testimonies about being used as hostages. And, thirdly,Russia will be even keener to parade any NATO personnel – all the better if they too (as seems likely) have been prevented from surrendering. I suspect the fact that the Russians have no cut off power or water, means they are prepared for a long siege, which may well result in those inside ending up fighting each other as those wanting to surrender grow ever more desperate. As a side note, if the ghastly Bernard Henri Levi is among those holed up, that will really be the icing on the cake.
This is a link ( in Russian ) regarding to the chain of events that apparently happened to the cruiser “Moskva”. Sounds very plausible.
https://t.me/ostashkonews/8007
o English (US)
‼️The Moskva cruiser: how it was.
Information from our sources.
The cruiser was near Odessa, closer to Romania. A year ago it was equipped with a new locator with phased array, which had the illumination range of 500 km. What was it there for?
The Ukrainian planes flew to the airfield in Romania and from there they took off in the direction of the sea, made a detour and came ashore from Odessa. Then they flew to Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, striking the RF troops.
All the airfields near Nikolayev and Odessa were smashed. They could not understand – where from? That’s why they brought the “Moscow” with a powerful locator.
It began to shine, and from the airfields of Crimea and from near Donetsk our Su-35s began to intercept the Ukrainians. Thus nine MiGs and Sukhoys were shot down.
This was all calculated by NATO. And here is the result. First the cruiser was hit from the drone – the locators and antennas were broken. The cruiser shot down one, but was already half blinded.
Here is a complete machine translation. The second part is highly significant:
‼️The Moskva cruiser: how it was.
Information from our sources.
The cruiser was near Odessa, closer to Romania. A year ago it was equipped with a new locator with phased array, which had the illumination range of 500 km. What was it there for?
The Ukrainian planes flew to the airfield in Romania and from there they took off in the direction of the sea, made a detour and came ashore from Odessa. Then they flew to Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, striking the RF troops.
All the airfields near Nikolayev and Odessa were smashed. They could not understand – where from? That’s why they brought the “Moscow” with a powerful locator.
It began to shine, and from the airfields of Crimea and from near Donetsk our Su-35s began to intercept the Ukrainians. Thus nine MiGs and Sukhoys were shot down.
This was all calculated by NATO. And here is the result. First the cruiser was hit from the drone – the locators and antennas were broken. The cruiser shot down one, but was already half blinded.
Then the Ukrainians launched two cruise missiles from the shore. Guidance was carried out by the NATO Orion, which hovered over Romania. He also turned on the electronic warfare and illuminated the cruiser’s air defense detection station.
The missiles went to the ship with the homing heads turned off so that it would not detect the radiation beam. Guidance was carried out by the NATO Orion, transmitting the exact coordinates of the ship to the missiles. The result – two hits, detonation of ammunition. The cruiser began to sink.
The cruiser “Moskva” (in addition to the main purpose – the destruction of KUG and AUG) is capable of providing long-range air defense of a ship strike group with the S-300F “Fort” complex for a detection range of air targets up to 300 km.
The cruiser was assigned the task of carrying out combat duty 100-120 km from Odessa in order to control the airspace within a radius of 250-300 km. That is, to ensure that the southern half of Moldova, the space from Izmail to Odessa and part of the territory of Romania (including the port of Constanta) is covered with its location field.
“Moskva” greatly interfered with the covert transfer of military aircraft (helicopters and planes) from the territory of Romania to the territory of Ukraine. The cruiser was monitored, NATO air reconnaissance worked on it.
The destruction of the flagship of the fleet was planned as a strategic task. Therefore, the operation of delivering anti-ship missiles to Odessa took place in strict secrecy and under the cover of electronic warfare.
As the “killer” of the cruiser, they chose RCC (anti-ship missile), but not “Neptune”, as spread by Ukrainian propaganda, but RCC of the fifth generation NSM (Naval Strike Missile, range – 185 km, developed by Norway-USA). This type of RCC was chosen from the need to achieve a 100% result.
NSM is able to reach the target along the programmed route thanks to the INS with GPS correction, to independently find the target, flying up to it at a height of 3-5 meters. When reaching the target, the NSM maneuvers and puts electronic interference. A highly sensitive thermal imager is used as a homing system, which independently determines the most vulnerable spots of the target ship.
A stationary container installation, secretly delivered to Ukraine, was used as a launcher. Thus, after the damage to the Moskva cruiser, which led to its sinking, NATO reopened an air corridor for the transfer of aircraft to the airfields of the Chernivtsi, Transcarpathian and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.
After the destruction of the cruiser Moskva, the Black Sea Fleet, unfortunately, no longer has a single ship with a long-range anti-aircraft missile system.
But it is not all that bad.
A three-band Nebo-M radar is located in Crimea, which is capable of tracking all air targets at a distance of up to 600 km. This radar station controls the sky to the city of Chernivtsi.
“Then the Ukrainians launched two cruise missiles from the shore. Guidance was carried out by the NATO Orion, which hovered over Romania. He also turned on the electronic warfare and illuminated the cruiser’s air defense detection station.”
I would like to know why Russia doesn’t take out those NATO Orion Guidence planes no matter wher they are. NATO is at war with Russia -they might start reconsidering if their planes get shot down in a NATO country. What’s to lose if NATO tries anything -isnt this about destroying NATO anyway, so please start !
I don’t know either. This was a brazen act of war by NATO. Where is the Russian response?
Here is something else. I am so sick of hearing about article 5. It is time to put this to rest once and for all. Take the NATO Orion plane out. Countries such as Finland and Sweden need to understand that they are not going to hide behind an article 5.
Guys, sincere question: is the Wagner group anywhere near related to the nazi ideas of the Azov Batallion?
I ask this because I noted that, after the West media lose it’s rethoric about good guys since the nazi militias are/were killing civilians as legitimate targets and well, the have nazi ideals and hate, what else to say… they now start to change a bit it’s strategy and began to compare sides. Azov and Wagner for example … It is not about judging, just want to known more from other sources. Thank’s
I am astonished that you make the inference that Azov and Wagner might have the same ideology.
There is enough info all over the internet which describes the Wagner Groups activities. For example in CAR and in Mali. You might note that Africans have the highest respect for Russian forces – be they regulars or mercenaries, as the Russian activities are in defence and protection of civilians and stable government.
AZOV is the modern reincarnation of the German SS which was declared a terrorist organisation already way back in 1944 by Eisenhower…
Zelenksy get JFK award for defending democracy. :-D
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/zelenskyy-gets-john-f-kennedy-award-for-defending-democracy-1.5870378
I note there are no comments on that site. Given Z’s treatment of his opposition I would say the US has finally jumped the shark.
Oh, Victor, my friend, this is so disgusting as to be nauseating. Oh, f**k, I wish to hell I hadn’t heard it from you, someone I trust and look up to. That said, best it came from you for the same reasons.
https://fivegunswest.blogspot.com/2022/04/hell-no-joe-we-wont-go-we-aint-marching.html
Yeah he defends democracy by banning, incarcerating, killing every political opponent. I bet JFK is turning in his grave.
From cont.
“”The amazing irony is that Gonzalo Lira is a Chilean who was caught by a fighter with the call sign Chile. Let’s hope for a video with the head cut off, ” Korotkikh wrote, posting a photo of the commander of the 226th Territorial Defense battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, part of the Kraken Azov unit, Serhiy Velichko, known by the call sign Chile.
In the photo, Velichko showed off his biceps. Earlier, Korotkikh asked to submit this sign to the person who will detain the Lira in Kharkiv.
Velichko is known for torturing and murdering Russian prisoners of war by members of his unit and, presumably, himself.
Korotkikh also reposted the news that Lyra was most likely killed, accompanied by a crab emoji, which may be a reference to the Kraken unit.
After foreigners noticed Korotkov’s post, he closed his account to outsiders. However, users managed to make screenshots.”
https://cont.ws/@bezuhoff/2268217?gold=
I do not know anything more than you about GL, just passing along info i stumbled across.
I hope the family learn about his fate and get a body to bury if he is dead.
there was a time when such human trash has been taken out by russian intelligence service.
Mossad would ve already made short trial with him.
Not so much these days. After moving manufacturing overseas, can’t make stuff here and expertise in basic skills like welding is long gone. Supply chain disruptions are worsening with Xi locking down port cities, so can’t get all the parts they need.
“Somalia” battalion on a brief break in Donetsk after Mariupol, before redeployment.
Witness the warm welcoming, the happiness of their people, after so many years of suffering.
Long live the memory of Givi, Founder and First Commander of the “Somalia” battalion!!!
————————————-
The battalion of the SM “Somalia” returned from Mariupol to Donetsk, from where it will be transferred to another sector of the front.
https://ok.ru/video/3411096373888
Lone Wolf
Thank you for the video clip, Lone Wolf.
Wonderful to watch!
I will watch it many times.
I have been praying for scenes like this.
For 8 years!!
Russians surrounding Nazis in a bunker. Isn’t it always the way.
@ Curtis
Russians surrounding Nazis in a bunker. Isn’t it always the way.
——————————————————————————————
LOL….well, it looks like it, it has fallen on the Russian people to help us get rid of such a curse.
Lone Wolf
Jimmy Dore is a pretty straight shooter in the US. His Youtube channel has a million subscribers. He’s been incredibly critical about western hypocrisy in Ukraine. Frankly I’m amazed he hasn’t been ‘cancelled’ yet.
Here’s one of the latest: “Russians are different and don’t value human life” say German pundit
https://youtu.be/isR5eQnOMzw
I just want to inform everyone that Russia is still shelling and bombing Azovstal. Which means that the skinheads will be fried sooner rather than later.
Yes indeed,there will be streets and town plazas named after those guys,i hope they tracked the murderers of Givi and the others down to face justice,they didn’t have the guts to kill them on the battlefield.
Having been looking at the information that is available by yourself and many other individuals media outlets.
Seeing how all sides of the conflict are behaving and reacting.
I have come to this hipothisis and i msy well be wrong.
Russia is allowing the conflict to roll on as it is knowing that it is draining the logistical revourses of the collective west deliberatley so that they have liitle reserve to escalate. They are in a chinese finger trap. Their economies are tanking, to divert resource to a conflict of this nature would be suicidal. Russia with its stand off missiles can just plug away at wherever these logistics are placed in Ukraine. It has already warned that any nato allie that stores then introduces them will be targeted. Even USA is now struggling. Its not just the supply but it is the transport transit cost. Which is also important as those weapons fail to reach their destination. Thus are really redundent.
Had Russia blitzekrieged this would not be the case. Another clever move as it also shows to the Russians the underground network that the CIA, NATO and USA have.
So the combined west has failed to colour revolution in Russia, failed in its sanctions war, failing in Ukraine, showed the world that there is an alternative to economies, and now shiws the world it is unable to even commence a real warlet alone sustain one.
Just a thought
2 Russian gas executives found dead along with each ones wife and daughter, one in Spain and one outside Moscow. Fire at Russian chemical plant and fire at research facility associated with Russia’s missile program.
A series of unfortunate events or something more sinister?
Please put links to back your comment. Mod.
Ok. About the 2 execs:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/2-russian-oligarchs-found-dead-spain-moscow-reports-2022-4%3famp
About the fires:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/fire-at-russian-defence-research-facility-kills-6-people/2022/04/21/253b0280-c1b3-11ec-b5df-1fba61a66c75_story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10740579/amp/Huge-blaze-sweeps-Russias-biggest-chemical-plant-hours-7-killed-weapon-centre-fire.html
Looks like Russia is VERY vulnerable and easy to catch with her pants around her ankles. They really need to step up their game, protect their assets.
I saw those reports earlier today on Zero Hedge.
Yes & it’s about time that Russia responed with unexplained fires & explosions in NATO countries & USA cities or Military bases. That shouldn’t be too hard ! Can’t just sit there & take it .
Anybody here read Strategic Culture? has been off-line for two days here
According to their Telegram channel they are migrating to another server and we shouldn’t worry since they will continue as usual soon.
Yes. I get a password request when I go to the site. I’m guessing it’s shut down. I have heard from two people that used to write for them that received a visit from gov. Obviously they stopped writing. It is/was a great site.
How Revolutions Are Born?
https://askeptic.substack.com/p/national-endowment-for-democracy?s=w
Try to imagine how the US government and MSM would react if NED was a Russian or Chinese organization, and those grants were being issued in either Canada or Mexico.
A few more videos for today.
Surrendered Kiev-Regime Senior Lieutenant Confirms War Crimes Against Civilians in Mariupol:
https://southfront.org/in-video-ukrainian-senior-lieutenant-confirms-war-crimes-against-civilians-in-mariupol/
Kiev critic Gonzalo Lira missing for days in Kharkov:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/gonzalo_21:2
The Kiev-regime destroyed civilian buildings in the city of Tokmak, in the liberated part of Zaporozhye oblast, with a Tochka-U missile:
https://rutube.ru/video/b912b845abe738aa69a87f051fa9efbb/
Russian Smerch rocket launcher, in action:
https://rutube.ru/video/eb9c420cc331b280d41e0cd7457e1442/
Matt Taibbi is among the best of American political writers. His piece on the cancelling of anti-war voices in the Land of the Free is quite informative.
“Matt Taibbi: America’s Intellectual No-Fly Zone”
https://scheerpost.com/2022/04/20/matt-taibbi-americas-intellectual-no-fly-zone/
“Before “de-platforming” was even a term in the American consciousness, our corporate press perfected it with regard to war critics. Back in May of 2003, months into the Iraq War invasion, the media watchdog FAIR did a study of 1,617 on-camera sources cited on six television networks and came to remarkable conclusions. “Anti-war voices were 10 percent of all sources, but just 6 percent of non-Iraqi sources and 3 percent of U.S. sources,” the group noted, but that was just the appetizer:
Of a total of 840 U.S. sources who are current or former government or military officials, only four were identified as holding anti-war opinions–Sen. Robert Byrd (D.-W.V.), Rep. Pete Stark (D.-Calif.) and two appearances by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D.-Ohio). Byrd was featured on PBS, with Stark and Kucinich appearing on Fox News.”
and then ….
“Since then, we’ve only widened the rhetorical no-fly zone. In a development that back then I would have bet my life on never happening, anti-interventionist voices or advocates for such people are increasingly confined to Fox if they appear on major corporate media at all.
This begins with those who are literal exiles or de facto political prisoners, like Edward Snowden or Julian Assange, and continues through the growing list of people like the aforementioned Hersh or Australian filmmaker John Pilger or Kucinich or Tulsi Gabbard or even recent torchbearer fixation John Mearsheimer, all of whom have been put on pay-no-mind lists for views on Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, and other actual or potential military interventions. ”
——
There is a take-away from the above.
Don’t assume that just because American corporate and government media is 100% pro-war and hate-Russians, that all Americans are. The Americans who don’t agree have been deplatformed and cancelled out of the American political debate decades ago. The American Right sector thinks this is new now that it is happening to them, but it happened to the left back during Cheney/Bush. For example, that was when MSNBC fired its highest rated host, the war critic Phil Donahue in order to be 100% pro-war in support of Bush. As Mr. Taibbi points out, they are still pro-war today.
——-
PS, the site Scheerpost hosts a few other dissident views. The war correspondent becoming a seminary graduate Chris Hedges among them. The site’s namesake, Robert Scheer, was, IIRC, fired from his corporate newspaper job for being critical of President Bush following 9-11, and that was simply not allowed in the Land of the Free. He was cancelled long before cancel-culture.
There are voices against this war in America.
Israel is still arming the Azov Battalion
Israeli anti-tank weapons are being used by Nazi soldiers in Ukraine.
A video published by Ukraine’s Azov Battalion on Twitter (below) showed one of its fighters firing an anti-tank missile. In the tweet Azov claimed it had hit a Russian vehicle.
Israeli media on Wednesday identified the missile system in the Azov video as a Matador, a weapon developed by a consortium involving Rafael, a state-owned Israeli arms manufacturer.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1516388893213564934
The weapon seen in the video does match with established photos of the Matador.
Yahoo News reported last month that Ukraine had bought 5,100 of the missile systems from a German manufacturer – the same firm that jointly developed the Matador with Rafael.
Matador is a portmanteau of “man-portable anti-tank, anti-door” since it is also used to blow holes in walls when fighting in urban areas.
What’s with the fires in sensitive facilities in Russia. I think they have saboteurs among their ranks. I think it’s about time that Russia ends this by delivering a very strong message to Kiev.
Now that the US and UK media have basically admitted (and gloated) that a US Navy Poseidon spy plane was directly involved in the Ukrainian attack on the Moskva, it seems likely that Russian retaliation in some form is certainly on the table.
The USA doesn’t seem to be able to keep up the pretense of not being directly involved in this proxy war.
The question is whether Putin thinks it is in the Russian best interest to keep pretending the USA is not the primary opponent in the war.
I would expect, at minimum, Russia will close the Black Sea to NATO aircraft. But having lost their flagship, if past is prologue, Russia will seek to take a ship of equal importance from the world’s number one indispensable aggressor nation.
Azovstal is 3x3km area, not a bunker.
Tver sabotage? Yes, I think so….
https://tass.com/emergencies/1441397
Fire in Tver military resarch institut started 9.30. Staff waited till 11.08 before informing emergency, and opened all windows so that the fire spread uncontrollable.
No evacuation of personnel was ordered.
One can expect retaliatory fires in NATO countries soon enough. Various chemical plants are likely targets
BASF Mannheim
Exxon Baton Rouge
Etc etc
From Bloomberg today:
Poland Seeks EU Support to Help Ukraine Refugees (8:37 a.m.)
Poland has asked the European Commission to use the money from seized Russian reserves and assets to help finance aid for Ukrainian refugees, Deputy Foreign Minister Pawel Jablonski told Rzeczpospolita newspaper.
The country’s prime minister wrote to European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen last week, estimating the cost of aid this year at 11 billion euros ($11.97 billion), or as much as 24 billion were the situation in Ukraine to worsen, according to the paper.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R2yeSOcNlgE
Gonzalo Lira is alive, but he was apperhended by SBU , they have confiscated his laptop and mobile phone and they forbade him from leaving Kharkiv.
I wonder which western vassal in Europe will introduce mandatory draft first and how will population of said country react? What kind of mental gymnastic will be employed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks&ab_channel=BBCComedyGreats
My bet is that Germany will not be first but it will be right behind the first. History and all that jazz. If the trajectory is not changed significantly we will see Germany as new Ukraine. Bulwark against,… That’s what you get when denazification is not done,some might argue properly i would argue not at all,after WWII.
Now, Russia will be safe from those hyenas. Some other countries too. But what about others? They will wait for liberation-again. Think again. Russia will bleed for itself and her interests. Not for hope and interest of certifiable ungratefuls. If nothing significantly changes expect yourselves and your loved ones to be sent as cannon fodder. Economically it is already happening. Militarily it is around the corner.
If you think your “values”, “culture”,… will keep you safe you were sleepwalking. Waking up alone will not suffice. Russia and allies have what it takes to prolong this for years surely. My bet is at least over 10+ years. Do you?
Dragan,
Actually the mental gymnastic has already been employed… and it explains the disappearance of the antiwar movement in the West.
We were erroneously sold on the idea that getting rid of the draft was a good thing and that our governments were taking the high road and doing the citizens a favor. However, the reality is the reverse. A draft actually introduces DEMOCRACY (ie citizen participation) into foreign policy. When there is a draft, it touches almost everyone in society. If you are young you have to either plan for it or have to have a plan to get out of it. And this greatly sensitizes parents and families as they are worried about their children. Think about the current generation of helicopter parents, how are they going to cope with a draft?
The result of draft is a citizen preoccupation with US foreign policy, which is the last thing the Deep State / US Intelligence Community wants. If we had a draft children and parents would be scanning the news and asking a lot of questions, like why do we have a military base in Djibouti and why is my son in Ukraine training troops?
However, with an all volunteer force, those questions never get asked and the population has more pressing things to think about than US foreign policy. And this is why the Left is so supportive of the war today: they will never have to fight it and those that do enlist to fight it are from the Red States. So, they are doubly removed.
Thus, the all volunteer system keeps prying eyes away from US foreign policy and defangs the antiwar movement. And when the US does incur casualties, they are often dismissed by sayings like: “it is sad, but they volunteered for it”, etc.
A draft offers a government an unlimited source of manpower, which is a benefit, but they lose the benefit of operating in relative secrecy and without accountability. And the later outweighs the former …and a smaller force can be augmented by great amounts of expensive (and profitable) technology.
I didn’t like the draft and was glad to see it go and I thought the US government was actually doing “we the people” a favor by eliminating it and burdening itself by having to recruit volunteers. It took me a long time to figure out what the US government really up to and now that I have seen the result, I would be happy to see the draft come back. It is a necessary check on our foreign policy, military and military industrial complex establishment. IMHO
See what happens when the draft is reintroduced; all hell will break out on the Left and we will see an immediate resurgence of the antiwar movement and questions to our elected officials about why their child is serving in Djibouti, Africa, etc.
For what it is worth…
PS: Somehow, with my limited cognitive ability, I figured that out on my own, however, I almost fell over when I recently saw Colonel Douglas Macgregor say the same thing, so I am pretty confident in the thesis.
Absolutely true. Drafted army also is stronger and more competent, because it represents all strata of the society. For the reasons you mention, the society is healthier. That does not discount professionals in the military of course.
Gonzalo Lira has shown back up.
Now.
What is the story. Personally I’m getting tired of being jerked around by his story. Typical me?
What’s really going on?
https://youtu.be/R2yeSOcNlgE
Já disse isso aqui mais de uma vez e repetirei sempre que achar oportuno: esse portal de informações se notabiliza pela publicação de textos de alta qualidade. No entanto ele tem uma particularidade toda especial que é a de ser um espaço que atrai muitas pessoas que fazem certos comentários que chegam a ser melhores que o texto que lhes deram origem.
Li atentamente e gostei muito de todos os comentários referentes ao subterrâneo de azovstal. O cerco do ponto de vista militar é uma vitória insofismável apesar das especulação, pois a bem da verdade ninguém sabe exatamente o que se passa nas suas profundezas. De qualquer forma esses comentários são interessantes na medida em que transcendem a realidade e nos apresentam toda essa situação que pode muito bem ser uma monumental metáfora de toda a crise na Ucrânia e porque não dizer de todos os “valores” que povoam esse grande submundo que é o próprio ocidente.
Espero que depois de sua fragorosa derrota frente ao ocidente no campo da informação e propaganda, a Rússia tenha finalmente compreendido onde está seu calcanhar de aquiles e a importância do papel da narrativa e da sua necessidade estratégica tal como ela entende a necessidade estratégica das armas hipesonicas.
Então poderemos ter a partir de agora, por exemplo, uma safra de filmes e documentários referência financiados por um programa de fomento do estado russo que conquistarao os corações e as mentes das massas – particularmente dos russos – para que entendam finalmente, a partir do que se passa nos subterrâneos da Ucrânia de forma literal e metafórica, o que significam os tais “valores ocidentais”. Se é que ainda as massas tem cerebro depois de praticamente um século de lavagem cerebral feita pelos meios de desinformação do ocidente e muito particularmente por holliwud.
Azovstal, além da vitória militar incontestável – o ocidente coletivo confinado num buraco imundo – é a metáfora perfeita que poderá ser usada pela ficção pois só mesmo a ficção para explicar as coisas que nem a ficção poderia prever. Esperemos que a Rússia saiba usar azovstal a seu favor. Do ponto de vista militar não há dúvidas que putin compreeendeu bem a situação e parece ter tomado a decisão correta. A questão é saber como azovstal será incorporada do ponto de vista simbólico na narrativa mais ampla. Os russos conseguirão fazer aquele “filme” sobre azovstal que os ianques não terão desculpas para não premiar com o oscar? Oscar esse que nenhum russo se interessará em receber na medida em que daqui para diante os tais “valore ocidentais” serão só os símbolos de um império em decadência?
Se é que me faço entender…
Good news. Mr. Lira is well and alive.
https://www.rt.com/russia/554321-lira-blogger-ukraine-released/