This column was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-russia-u-s-conventional-balance/
In a recent column for the Unz Review I wrote that “under any conceivable scenario Russia does have the means to basically completely destroy the USA as a country in about 30min (the USA, of course, can do the same to Russia). Any US war planner would have to consider the escalatory potential of any military action against Russia.”
This still begs the question of whether Russia could challenge the USA militarily if we assume, for demonstration’s sake, that neither side would be prepared to use nuclear weapons, including tactical ones. If, by some mysterious magic, all nuclear weapons were to disappear, what would the balance of power between Russian and the US look like?
Why bean counting makes absolutely no sense
The typical reply to this kind of question resorts to what US force planners call “bean counting”. Typically, journalists use the yearly IISS Military Balance or a source like Global Firepower and tallies of the number of men, main battle tanks, armored personnel carries, infantry combat vehicles, combat aircraft, artillery pieces, bombers, missiles, surface ships, submarines, etc. each side has a presents them in a chart. The reality is that such bean counting means absolutely and strictly nothing. Let’s take a simple example: if a war happens between, say, China and Russia then the fact that China has, say, 1000 thanks in it’s Yunnan province, will make no difference to the war at all, simply because they are too far. When we apply this caveat to the Russian-US conventional military balance we immediately ought to ask ourselves the following two basic questions:
a) What part of the US military worldwide would be immediately available to the US commanders in case of a war with Russia?
b) On how much reinforcements could this force count and how soon could they get there?
Keep in mind that tanks, bombers, soldiers and artillery do not fight separately – they fight together in what is logically called “combined arms” battles. So even the USA could get X number of soldiers to location A, if they don’t have all the other combined arms components to support them in combat they are just an easy target.
Furthermore, any fighting force will require a major logistics/supplies effort. It is all very well to get aircraft X to location A, but if it’s missiles, maintenance equipment and specialists are not here to help, they are useless. Armored forces are notorious for expending a huge amount of petroleum, oil and lubricants. According to one estimate, in 1991 a US armored division could sustain itself for only 5 days , and after that it needed a major support effort.
Finally, any force that the US would move from point A to point B would become unavailable to execute its normally assigned role at point A. Now consider that “point A” could mean the Middle-East, or Far East Asia and you will see that this might be a difficult decision for US commanders.
“Heavy” warfare
We have one very good example of how the US operates: operation Desert Shield . During this huge operation it took the US six months and an unprecedented logistical effort to gather the forces needed to attack Iraq. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia had been prepared for decades to receive such a massive force (in compliance with the so-called Carter Doctrine) and the US efforts was completely unopposed by Saddam Hussein. Now ask yourself the following questions:
a) In case of war with Russia, which country neighboring Russia would have an infrastructure similar to the one of the KSA, prepositioned equipment, huge bases, runways, deep ports, etc. ? (reply: none)
b) How likely is it that the Russians would give the USA six months to prepare for war without taking any action? (reply: impossible)
One might object that not all wars run according to the “heavy” scenario of Desert Storm . What if the US was preparing a very ‘light’ military intervention using only US and NATO immediate or rapid reaction forces?
Light (or rapid reaction) warfare
I will repeat here something I wrote in December of last year : “the Russians have no fear of the military threat posed by NATO. Their reaction to the latest NATO moves (new bases and personnel in Central Europe, more spending, etc.) is to denounce it as provocative, but Russian officials all insist that Russia can handle the military threat. As one Russian deputy said “5 rapid reaction diversionary groups is a problem we can solve with one missile”. A simplistic but basically correct formula. As I mentioned before, the decision to double the size of the Russian Airborne Forces and to upgrade the elite 45th Special Designation Airborne Regiment to full brigade-size has already been taken anyway. You could say that Russia preempted the creation of the 10’000 strong NATO force by bringing her own mobile (airborne) forces from 36’000 to 72’000 . This is typical Putin. While NATO announces with fanfare and fireworks that NATO will create a special rapid reaction “spearhead” force of 10’000, Putin quietly doubles the size of the Russian Airborne Forces to 72’000. And, believe me, the battle hardened Russian Airborne Forces are a vastly more capable fighting force then the hedonistic and demotivated multi-national (28 countries) Euroforce of 5’000 NATO is struggling hard to put together . The US commanders fully understand that”.
In other words, “light” or “rapid reaction” warfare is where the Russians excel and not the kind of conflict the US or NATO could ever hope to prevail in. Besides, if the “light warfare” was to last longer than planned and had to be escalated to the “heavy” kind, who of the USA or Russia would have its heavy forces nearer?
Shock and awe
There is, of course, another model available to the US commanders: the “shock and awe” model: massive cruise missile attacks backed by bomber strikes. Here I could easily object that bombing Russia is not comparable to bombing Iraq and that the Russian air defenses are the most formidable on the planet. Or I could say that while the USA has an excellent record of success when bombing civilians, its record against a military force like the Serbian Army Corps in Kosovo is an abject failure.
[Sidebar: 78 days of non-stop US/NATO airstrikes, 1000+ aircraft and 38’000+ air sorties and all that to achieve what? Ten or so Serbian aircraft destroyed (most on the ground), 20+ APC and tanks destroyed and 1000+ Serbian soldiers dead or wounded. That is out of a force of 130’000+ Serbian soldiers, 80+ aircraft, 1’400 artillery pieces, 1’270 tanks and 825 APCs (all figures according to Wikipedia ). The 3rd Serbian Army Corps basically came out unharmed from this massive bombing campaign which will go down in history as arguably the worst defeat of airpower in history!]
But even if we assume that somehow the US succeeded in its favorite “remote” warfare, does anybody believe that this would seriously affect the Russian military or breaking the will of the Russian people? The people of Leningrad survived not 78, but 900 (nine hundred!) days of a infinitely worse siege and bombing and never even considered surrendering!
The reality is that being on the defense gives Russia a huge advantage against the USA even if we only consider conventional weapons. Even if the conflict happened in the Ukraine or the Baltic states, geographic proximity would give Russia a decisive advantage over any conceivable US/NATO attack. American commanders all understand that very well even if they pretend otherwise.
Conversely, a Russian attack on the USA or NATO is just as unlikely, and for the same reasons. Russia cannot project her power very far from her borders. In fact, if you look at the way the Russian military is organized, structured and trained, you will immediately see that it is a force designed primarily to defeat an enemy on the Russian border or within less than 1000km from it. Yes, sure, you will see Russian bombers, surface ships and submarines reaching much further, but these are also typical “showing the flag” missions, not combat training for actual military scenarios.
The sole and real purpose of the US military is to regularly beat up on some small, more or less undefended, country, either to rob it from its resources, overthrow a government daring to defy the World Hegemon or just make an example. The US military was never designed to fight a major war against a sophisticated enemy. Only the US strategic nuclear forces are tasked to defend the USA against another nuclear power (Russia or China) or actually fight in a major war. As for the Russian military, it was designed to be purely defensive and it has no capability to threaten anybody in Europe, much less so the United States.
Of course, the western corporate media will continue to “bean count” US and Russian forces, but that is pure propaganda designed to create a sense of urgency and fear in the general public. The reality for the foreseeable future will remain that neither the USA nor Russia have the means to successfully attack each other, even with only conventional forces.
The only real danger left is an unprepared and unforeseen sudden escalation which will lead to a confrontation neither side wants nor is prepared for. The Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 or the Georgian attack on Russian peacekeepers in 2008 are two scary reminders that sometimes dumb politicians take fantastically dumb decisions. I am confident that Putin and his team would never take such a dumb decision, but when I look at the current pool of US Presidential candidates I will tell you that I get very, very frightened.
Do you?
The Saker
Well, Saker, as the Israeli attack on Lebanon was a dismal failure and the Georgian attack on Russian Peacekeepers dito…then I guess you’re being a bit tongue in cheek about being very very frightened…? BOOM
He didn’t say they would succeed.But the attack itself would begin WW3.That I think is what he meant frightened him.That they were insane enough to do it,succeed or not.
Once US forces in the field are being beaten conventionally the district of criminals will go dog in the manger and launch their nukes.Not a good scenario for America!
Well, Israeli army definitely did not meat goals. But calling that failure. Lebanon was basically bleeding from every orifice. It is not fair to compare Georgian war to this one. Georgians lost fair and square. Israel just got a black eye while breaking Lebanon jaw and quite a few bones.
There has been quiet since then.
Yes! I look at the election campaign for the next US president, and, knowing the USA CIA led Bilderberg Group picked insane Mrs. William Clinton, as they also picked Obama, knowing since 9/11 no law but war law comes from Washington, I fear her presidency greatly. She is 100% amoral and vengeful. “The US mantra of:”It’s us or the highway” hegemony, is hers personally from the time her husband became US president. With apolitical US oligarches and the monopolistic corporations in charge of world wars her Presidency is the most unwise and unstable choice the USA CIA dominated Bilderberg Group could have picked. Since they foment war as their own reason for being, this pick is a deadly natural. A race to extinction.
I think (hope) you are right in this analysis.But I do have a question about one point.Having lived through several of the US wars of aggression. I’ve noticed some common factors used.The propaganda campaign of course.And we see that already directed at Putin and Russia.But more importantly,is the moving of equipment you talked of.Well,I think we already see that happening.Slowly but surely,every few weeks or so,we hear of more and more equipment being moved to the East.A small amount at a time.But as more and more goes it adds up.And that is only what they announce.How much is being positioned that we may not hear about.We’ve had people post about seeing massive movements that we don’t have confirmation on.But as the saying goes “where there’s smoke there’s fire”.So I’m not sure they aren’t already getting that in place.But quietly so Russia doesn’t do as you say they would.Never trust in the word or promises of the Empire is my credo.They have been insane for years.And one more bout of insanity wouldn’t shock me at all.
The Russians have significant ‘force multipliers’ as they will be fighting locally. If the US and NATO were dumb enough to attack then Russia would target supply lines and even if ‘resources’ were marshalled together the Russians would take them out – tactical nukes. The other things are that the Russians would be fighting for their homeland and they would fight with mass and layered artillery, rockets and armour – all with air cover. When did the US fight such a war in the modern era. US forces are no more than mercenaries for corporations, bankers, etc.
NATO will fight locally as well. And many of NATO eastern states have been whipped into a frenzy about hating Russians.. And Russia could not win against NATO, even if Russian army were 10x larger and 10x better with 10x the better technology.. What would Russia do? Occupy all of western Europe including UK? And then what? They couldn’t reach USA.
If a war started between NATO and Russia, the best Russia could do was expell the NATO forces from Russia.. But then what? NATO goes on all the way to France. Then to UK, then to USA. If USA was not defeated and occupied the war would go on, and Russia would be forced to occupy all of Europe and fight down a constant USA fueled insurgency.
Rif, no.
“NATO will fight locally as well.”
Yes: Poland will fight the Czechs, France will fight Germany, Romania will fight Hungary, and Russia will open a new plant to make popcorn so they don’t run out of snacks while watching it on TV. If NATO tries to attack Russia they will get tactical nukes to heat up there MREs, and the Germany and Poland will fight each other while Italy invites Greece and Spain to lunch and eat olives. Then NATO will vanish into history.
The article talk about conventional warfare, in a nuclear war Russia and NATO would be forever culturally, demograpically politically destroyed within 24h.
Do you know the difference between a “Tactical nuke” and a “Strategic Ballistic nuke”?
When you do…..get back to me.
Don’t hold your breath”
It’s easy to look it up yourself if you want to know. But you can get a start at http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster3.htm or
or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuclear_weapon
more details at
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1103.pdf only 540 pages.
USAWC Website
SSI Website
This Publication
Tactical Nuclear Weapons
and NATO
U.S. ARMY WAR COLLEGE
Editors:
Tom Nichols
Douglas Stuart
Jeffrey D. McCausland
I don’t know why people are so reluctant to do a little research on their own.
I think he meant that as a sarcastic comment.And already knows the real answer.
I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt of honest ignorance and that he wasn’t just arrogantly trolling, you know. There is also some interesting information in the links as to both the ambiguity of the term and possible size and possible environmental damage the larger ones can do (without escalation).
I see a number of posters making simplistic but sweeping statements which could be based on either ignorance or on trolling, and it’s nicer to assume ignorance.
I saw a recent popular American corn movie where one of the economically and culturally proscribed characters uttered the belief that Nuclear bombs aren’t really as bad as they were made out to be….God just look at the depleted uranium in Iraq. They should take the US to the ICC or something and sue for war crimes and compensation. But the point is the notion that nuclear weapons can be “safely” used is percolating through US society.
Yes,the use of the first will quickly escalate to the use of the second.
Yes, I do, and none of them are conventional. This article refers to conventional military conflict.
Trolling isn’t allowed here.
Even a small nuclear exchange, if such a thing is possible without escalating to the whole omnicidal shebang, will trigger a nuclear winter in the northern Hemisphere, so the Empire’s European slaves will be radioactive and starving pretty quick. Then their populations, brainwashed for decades in greedy, amoral, selfishness and contempt for the ‘losers’ would turn on each other.
A nuclear conflict between NATO and Russia would utterly destroy Russia and NATO. The world would be left for islam and China.
By some miracle, China and the “country” of “Islam” (where exactly is “Islam” located on the map, BTW?), would escape the resulting radiation and nuclear winter effects a NATO-Russian nuclear war would produce.
Again w idiots claiming russia using nukes but no words of ne one else using nukes… russia can only defend russia that’s it. Period. The United states military alone would defeat russia within 2yrs. Too much navy too much technology too much airforce too many bases globally. Yall need to quit pipe dreaming these are facts
Really, please tell us how? How would US establish forward operating bases without being attacked by Russian Iskander, Kalibr and Zircon missiles? How could their carrier groups get close to Russian coast lines when Kalibr missiles would engage them before they are able to launch any attacks? The myopic tragedy of the carrier battle groups is that their offensive reach for their carrier borne aircraft is a mere 600 miles. Russian submarines and costal defenses are a very strong deterrent against any carrier battle group. The cost effectiveness for such deterrence is amazing as well, a carrier battle group that costs 20 billion dollars being neutralized by a missile system that costs maybe 1 billion. That is why the Russian defense budget gets a lot for their money than the Pentagon budget.
Sweet dreams. NATO was supposed to vanish together with the SU. Instead it was resurrected and given new mission. Initially it was to fight “Monica” war. There are no indicators that it will lose its usefulness to its masters.
If a war started between NATO and Russia, the best Russia could do in my opinion is to strike right in the heart – attack the USA. Unless the homeland is attacked directly, the americans would endlessly encourage others to fight, untill everybody dies, and they rip the profit. History knows several examples of that.
Russia could never reach US with conventional forces.
Previously posted comments here under “fds”.
@ Rif 6:36
I wouldn’t be so sure about this information………when the bear decide to fight it is the fight for life, Watch the history of the WWII. Non of the nations around the world were able to go through that sacrifice like Russian’s.
Read the story about a Stalingrad
You can’t really compare Russia to USSR, and you cannot really compare the society of Russia today with USSR. USSR was a totalitarian society Russia is a democracy.
The battles Russia has been in since 1991 has not been so impressive fought by Russia. The only militarily impressive think Russia has done since 1991 was the action in Crimea.
Also Russia would need to occupy all of NATO space to win the war, all of W.Europe, and all of USA. That is utterly impossible.
There was no military action in Crimea in 2014. Unknown to many (even to Obama) is the Agreement between Ukra. and Russia from 1991, permitting Russians to keep in Crimea a little over 20,000 soldiers, over 1,000 armored vehicles, obviously Black sea naval force, etc. People of Crimea voted in referendum (this time, 2nd time -1st. in 1991) demanding attachment back to Russia. Russian parliament (Duma) eventually agreed to that demand. No bullet fired, no new forces needed. Yes, there were clearly marked Russian para forces (little green men) observing that fascist provocateurs sent from Kiev would have no chance to create chaos and observe one Ukra army camp where there were apparently already stationed UK. & US “advisers”. In fact apparently over 3/4 of Ukra soldiers and naval personnel stationed in Crimea also joined the Russian forces.
But Russian forces did have a chance to shine when Georgia attacked their little neighbors.
Replied already – not posted- why?
No military action occurred in Crimea (2014) – Unknown to many (even Obama) is the Agreement between Ukr. and R.F. from 1991, permitting R.F. to station in Crimea little over 20,000 soldiers, over 1,000 armored vehicles, Black Sea naval force, etc. 97% Crimeans voted in Referendum 2014 to get back into R.F. (this time 2nd time-1st. already in 1991). Parliament R.F. (Duma) eventually fulfilled their wish. There was no bullet fired. Yes, there were clearly marked para troopers of R.F. observing that Kiev provocateurs could not create chaos there and watching one particular camp of Ukr. army, where reportedly there were U.K. and US. advisors. Interestingly 3/4 of Ukr. army stationed there volunteered to be transferred to the Russian army?
But Russian army shined when Georgia, apparently with CIA encouragement, attacked their little neighbors.
“Also Russia would need to occupy all of NATO space to win the war, all of W.Europe, and all of USA.”
And in turn NATO would need to occupy all of Russia to win the war? This seems to me to be rather odd thinking.
“Previously posted comments here under “fds”.”
-?
Besides using “fds”, “Rif” has used “Liv”, “fdsfs”, “fdsfs”, “L” and “I”.
In WWII only significant guerilla forces were – SSSR on occupied territory and Yugoslavian partizans. Do you really believe tha French Resistance Movement had any meaningfull impact on defat of Hitler? They did not fight then, why would they fight now? just becouse russians are mean and ugly and NATO says so? Even in former Yugoslavia, whre population is way less peacefull than europeans, in civil wars of 1990-1995 urban population on all sides did ther best to avoid the battlefields, by dodging the draft or simply leaving the country. And entire EU is – urban population, with much higher standard of living than any country in the East Europe. Comfortable life softens man’s desire to fight. Don’t count on guerill war in Europe to protect NATO. The only insurgency in Europe may be against current ruling elite.
Russia is nowhere near USSR.
“The only insurgency in Europe may be against current ruling elite.”
Maybe yes, people is not right now for guerrillas, until things get really ugly as in Donbass, but with this, remove the currently ruling elite, the war would already have been avoided. New popular leftist movements and the traditional left, who we will vote en masse in the next election, at least here in Spain, have no intention of going to war with anyone, less with the Russians, who fall us very well.
Actually, what we are thinking is start to go on vacation there, you see.
Given the treachery of Syriza, I wouldn’t place too much faith in the ‘New popular Leftist movements’. Most, in fact, seem Trojan Horses empowered by the likes of Soros to divert popular outrage at the depredations of the parasite elites.
elsie, but are the new left movements anti-EU ?
Well, maybe they are not anti-EU, but they are anti-NATO, at least in its original program we all proposed those who were at the beginning of some of these movements. Like any political formation new born, they are not free of 5th columnists and, at this point, I do not know what weight have achieved them in these movements. I had to argue directly with more than one the membership to NATO. The popular support that has boosted these movements to the European Parliament and to constitute the third political force in the Spanish state has been based on their speech to make things better for the majority of the population, increase transparency and people participation in decisions of weight, end the endemic corruption of the lounging bipartisanship, stimulate and diversify the economy, changing the model country that only lives on tourism and rampant construction and monumental works who benefits only builders friends of the “caste” that have decades taking turns in power, create jobs for young people and that the best educated generation in history can return to lift its country and return the effort to educate them, rather than be reaped by others such as Germany and UK which have not invested anything in their training …. And, of course, make themselves be heard in Europe. Well, these are some of the items on the agenda.
Actually, after the initial attempt, I’m not in Podemos, precisely because of the 5th columnists Trotskyists, with whom I spent my whole time there discussing “how convenient it is to belong to NATO and how bad they are the Russians “. Neither I have ever voted them nor think I am going to vote them. I continue with my traditional left, who I see have the clearest points. I just hope that the traitors within Podemos have been neutralized, and many people vote them. There are also very good people in Podemos.
Of course, they have been already interviewed in the US Embassy, because, Pablo Iglesias, the lider of Podemos, says, “they are not going to refuse to meet with anyone.” Curiously enough, the “King of Spain” still have not called them nor seems he is going to do it. Well, I am hoping that Putin call them to see if they wil go. Here in Spain we all know that the “kings of Spain” are always with the right wing, not in vain, was Franco who put them where they are, without any consultation to the people, when he felt that his time was running, after 40 years in power acquired by the fascist coup which evicted the legitimate Republicain government and led to the bloody civil war that they won, the fascists, with the invaluable help of fascist Germany and Italy, and complacency of the US, France and UK.
As you see, we, the people of Spain, the 99%, proletarian people, we are “very grateful” to all these countries by the how much they have done for us, sinking us into a civil war of the bloodiest in history and plunge us into a dictatorship for 40 years, and then, to deceive us as idiots, and make us slaves of illegitimate debt.
The only who gave us a hand was Stalin and the Russian people, who took many children from here, especially from the Basque Country, and raised them as their own. And for so we will be forever grateful, at least the well-born.
So I would not give two cents for many Spaniards going to any war against the Russians, we prefer jail before. You know, today, with how difficult it is living here for some people, you hear a lot down the street that people did not mind going to jail, after all, there you eat three times a day, do not feel cold, have medical care, you can study a career and, in some, there are even a swimming-pool … Life is much more terrible out for many already ….
Incidentally, the other day I read the news that Anders Breivik will pursue the career of Political Science at the University of Oslo, where he has been admitted without restrictions ….
And, incidentally too, all these thugs “Right Sector / ISIS style” is not an invention of now. Franco broke into Spain, from Marocco, through the South border, with his “Moor regiment”, raping and killing women republican militia as if there were no tomorrow. Then, after winning the war, started the mass murder and extermination of any trail of “reds”, republicans, anarchists and “all that scum”, to guarantee them the power for decades without opposition. No one Western power nor international institution has claimed that these dead were counted and removed from the gutters for some relief of their descendants who, with all the power of the actual government against, still are looking for their relatives.
“Anders Breivik wil study the same career than Pablo Iglesias at the University of Oslo”
http://www.alertadigital.com/2015/07/20/anders-breivik-estudiara-la-misma-carrera-que-pablo-iglesias-en-la-universidad-de-oslo/
Probably because he knows, for a fact, that has a future in politics……
Who will have guaranteed it to him?…..
elsi, Brievik’s atrocity, so plainly allowed by the police to proceed long after he should have been dealt with, came after a typically vicious hate campaign by the Zionazis launched against Norway, the Norwegian Labour Party and the Youth Group in particular, for the crime of supporting the Palestinians. Brievik, like many European fascists, is a zealous supporter of Israel, Israel having made an alliance with Islamophobe fascists as nasty as their co-operation with ‘Christian Zionists’. And many of the Islamophobic groups springing up across Europe are openly or only slightly surreptitiously backed by Judeofascists. Very often that is apparent from the nomenclature they ‘choose’, such as the ‘English Defence League’, so plainly signalling its inspiration in the ‘Jewish Defence League’ of Kahane. As for Brievik, I would have let him loose on the island with one or two relatives of the deceased children, that way inclined, given the opportunity to hunt him down. Otherwise, if you wish to house and feed such Evil, it MUST be until the day it dies.
thanks elsi, very informative.
Quite agree with you and I would add that I see a distinct possibility that an open war against Russia (especially a loosing one) would trigger in many European countries a reaction against their governments.
Their elites and those technocrats in Brussels have lost all semblance if legitimacy in the eyes of many. Either that or civil wars on ethnic/religious lines starting here and there…
To think that Romania could pose a real threat to Russia is the height of fantasy. I doubt that the anti-Russian frenzy would so high as to inspire Romanians with the desire to take on the Bear.
Romania itself is no threat to Russia.
But Romania that alows the placement of US anti missile elements on its territory (which could also easily transform into an offensive system) is a grave threat to Russia. Thus, all of these elements (and its wider surroundings) suddenly become very desirable primary nuclear targets in case of conflict between the big powers.
Add to this the possibility that the territory of Romania is used for the quiet accumulation of equipment for (eventual) deployment of US & AZ troops in the case of the decission by AZionists to push into Odesssa, Transdnistria, Novorussia and Ukraine, and there you have it. Total destruction of Romania.
The Romanian leadership and political forces in power at the moment will not be able to say susequently – we did not know! Or – “they tricked us”. All they will achieve is devastation of their beautiful country because of their vassalage to a foreign far away hegemon that is sucking them dry.
Жељко из Крајине
@Rif 11.01 A,M,
East Europeans definitely sobered out from the Us democracy lead by Mr.Havel and gang with their looting and destroyement of their culture, operation drugs in every corner and casinos.
Don’t worry East Europeans know very well now that who is the lier and fraudster in the history of the world
Do you know the difference between a “Tactical nuke” and a “Strategic Ballistic nuke”?
When you do……get back to me!
I assume that you have never seen a live specimen of an eastern european… There is no hate against Russians… Don’t live in a fairy tale… Don’t hate your enemy, it affects you judgement… Have you heard that in a movie? Aaaaahhh…
“fighting for their homeland”
I think this is a key statement which applies to all the area around Russia. I would think the Russians will volunteer in great numbers to defend their country if need be, as patriotism seems to be one of their qualities.
Whereas the people in the countries around them will ask themselves what business do they have to get mixed up in something like this, and risk their lives for nothing. Which is what ordinary Romanians replied every time there was some bellicose newspaper article testing their fighting spirit. Now, as blue said, if it were to fight Hungary, that could turn out to be a totally different matter.. Probably also for the Hungarians who might prefer to fight the Romanians rather than the Russians.
Somehow I don’t see the Bulgarians either doing this with great zest. Or the Moldovans.. Or the Greeks..
As for the Ukrainians, tens of thousands of them would not fight even for their own country and dodged the draft. So that leaves the Latvians and the Poles to keep the flag flying.
It’s always a good idea to listen to the voice of the street before trying to impose something to the said street. But the powers to be have flooded the comments sections in all the official media with their own people so as to drown that voice, and they won’t be able to hear it when it will matter most.
Lol what r u talking about? Nato would without question take over russia… look up the statistics nato is 9x the military russia is there would be no chance no matter how u look at it
Do be serious. NATO is USA’s means of controlling Europe. Look at NATO’s engagements so far – they follow the same pattern as USA (usually supported by an insignificant UK force to give it “multilaterality”) of attacking manufactured enemies who can’t defend themselves from massive air assaults, but usually can cause enough trouble to trap the invaders in a quagmire of asymmetric war.
Add to this the internal problems the EU is facing – money trouble, ethnic differences and, particularly, half a dozen conflicting world views. Western Europeans regard the East Europeans as vainglorious drunks who really haven’t quite understood that they’re vassals of the USA now, not Russia. France and UK are still cruising along as if they are still major powers, but base this on possession of enough (outdated) nukes to be second-tier targets, but not credible beligerents. North Europe regards Southern Europe as a kind of medaeval adventure playground to use and abuse. No European countries’ populations have majority support for even helping out fellow NATO members should they get themselves into trouble.
Finally, NATO is based on that most dangerous of things, a mutual defense pact. Erdogan has already tried to finesse NATO into his squabble with Syria. Can you imagine what might have happened if that coked-out crazie Sarkashvili had managed to finagle Georgia into the ‘treaty’?
The only thing Europe may agree on is that they want sod all to do with the USA if they succeed in starting a shooting war somewhere in the EU, but I’d want long odds before placing a bet on that.
with 6000 or 8000 troops ? Get real.
In any military action close to Russia’s borders, the Russians for geographical reasons can determine and control the pace of escalation (escalation dominance). I do not share the Saker’s fears of a potential “hot” war between Russia and NATO. Despite all the macho military posturing from US politicians and military brass, the US military leadership knows that they cannot hope to win any war, conventional or otherwise, against Russia. In my opinion, the US will continue its policy of covert destabilisation of Russia in the hope of triggering Mr Putin’s removal from power.
“This is typical Putin. While NATO announces with fanfare and fireworks that NATO will create a special rapid reaction “spearhead” force of 10’000, ”
-It is 40 000 now.
” NATO to boost special defense forces to 40,000 – Stoltenberg ”
http://www.rt.com/news/269389-nato-europe-rapid-force/
40,000? That makes them half the size of the Ukie Glorious army of cannon fodder.
The militia has handled them, for over a year.
So, this US-led rapidly defeated force the NATO bozos are putting together have what odds of prevailing for, say, 24 hours?
They are a sacrificial lamb offered as a tribute to Brussels and Washington’s arrogance.
If they are used to attack, they will be destroyed. If they are used to defend, who’s attacking?
Why would Russia attack Eastern Europe?
When you begin with irrational notions, you wind up with irrational actions. 40,000?
Work out their needs if they really think a war with Russia is on the horizon.
Probably, the force structure would be 25 million men to take Russia (non-nuke).
A simple look at the systems Russia has (non-nuke, mind you) and you can see that Russia, behind its defenses, would stack dead NATO forces by the tens of thousands per hour.
There is no strategy or tactic that gets NATO a victory.
As someone on this topic once said that Russia no longer stands alone. China would not allow Russia to be attacked.
Western thinking (an oxymoron) looks at Russia like it is an island. Many other nations know that they would be mauled next or during any attack on Russia. So, the “target” Russia is actually much, much larger geopolitically.
The noise of the argument is loud and wide. But the signal of the issue is very small. Russia will not attack and Russia cannot be defeated (without first strike EMP and Nukes).
Those pointy little heads under those skullcaps in DC and Brussels face MAD every which way they pursue their wet dream of destroying Russia.
Actually, Ukraine hade 6000 combat ready soldiers. And NATO is somewhat better equipped and trained then Ukrainian forces.
“Why would Russia attack Eastern Europe? ”
-Um, because several eastern European nations are part of NATO and the scenario in the article is a war between NATO and Russia..
“Probably, the force structure would be 25 million men to take Russia (non-nuke).”
– Now there is an irrational notion, so all the armies of the earth would not be enough to take on Russia?
Edited out unnecessary provocative language. Try to keep the discussion polite please. /Mod Z.L.
@Mats 1:38
Thank you so much you have nailed this with acuracy. It is very funny to read some of the absolutely naive dreams of some of the contributors to this blog.Even in a history US never won ANY war around the world, only has sacrified innocent American lives and made the name for the next generation as a loosers.
Yes, they have: Grenada 1983.
Rif, give us a break.
Lots of serious people here posting serious opinions and analysis.
Get real.
Yeah, that pretty much describes you and me, I posted something serious and you posted a troll comment, congratulations.
Actually, Roda, your replies to Rif’s comments are not constructive. If you disagree with something, please explain why you disagree. Everyone has a right to their view as long as they can argue for it. /Mod Z.L.
He mis-spoke.
He said
“This will enable us to deploy our forces as quickly as we need when crises arise, while maintaining full political control,” Stoltenberg said.
What he meant to say was
“This will enable us to create a crisis under political control as quickly as we want to force one.
Thank you…….does the Arctic area need a separate analysis in its own right? People would obviously be concerned -horrified about a land war-confrontation, but less so over miles of less inhabited Arctic ocean and ice………Rus has been strengthening this side in the last few months, Canada getting a bit uprorious, maybe some “parties’ could be looking for reasons-oops, excuses, to start up something there…….ongoing “territorial’ uncertainties…….
does the Arctic area need a separate analysis in its own right?
Yes, it does. I am planning that for the very near future :-)
Cheers,
The Saker
oh wowee, thank you very much I look forward to seeing it. Have a good weekend!
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/now-nato-wants-expand-arctic-q/ri8938
http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/russia-vs-us-total-war-is-obliteration.html
http://sputniknews.com/military/20150725/1025032949.html
“MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Joint force drills on the defense of strategically important facilities in the Arctic will be held for the first time later in 2015, Northern Fleet Commander Adm. Vladimir Korolev said Saturday.
“The most interesting and intense combat training this year will be the joint force exercise on defense of strategically important objects of economic activity. Such an exercise will be held for the first time,” Korolev told reporters.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150725/1025032949.html#ixzz3gu9MUHG3
A topic that has been rumbling along since Oct 2014, it’s getting more & more of a focus. I dipped my toe into the subject back then, focusing on UNCLOS. It was right in the middle of the russian subs scaremongering season. http://lepontduhadu.blogspot.fr/2014/10/blog-russian-submarines-in-arctic-saga.html so I will be looking forward to seeing a comprehensive article on this on this site.
Yours aye
Le Dahu
About a year ago a question was asked on this blog namely what is the difference between an analyst and a strategist – it was never answered.
Notions of war that are restricted to things that go bang are not only naive but self-defeating as even Clausewitz established.
There have been some qualitative changes, including in understanding, since Clausewitz but most of his theses still have validity.
You may be aware of the technique of misrepresentation by omission.
Misrepresentation of course has its uses and evaluation is always a function of purpose.
Consequently depending on purpose your “analysis” may not aid fuller understanding.
Well I’ll fill in a major omission Saker left out of his analysis; the USA cannot sustain casualties. We saw this in Somalia, in planning of all U.S. military operations and every day in it’s media. We saw it when Bush forbade media from covering the return of dead GIs.
Statistics show that it’s safer to fight in the U.S.”s wars than drive it’s freeways. This ‘achievement’ is one of the reasons it can sustain continuous military action – the troops and their backers never have have reason to consider if it’s ‘worth it.’ This is a MAJOR psychological factor well known to the professionals left in the U.S. MIC who are seriously concerned about the phenomena.
The U.S. public and it’s troops are bred to the idea of invincibility and anything, such as the massive casualties Russia would inflict would dismiss that concept What would be left is a rational realization that it wasn’t worth it.
U.S. Psy Ops and media are working overtime on solving that equation. But their failure to control the internet, the increasing (really!) sophistication of the U.S. public, and lastly efforts of people like the Saker are making their chances very problematic.
True story from Afghanistan …. One NATO country had a fully operational base complete with set up MOD’s etc in operation in a very short order of time. The US troops had theirs in containers and were waiting for their engineers to set theirs up. They were surprised that the ‘lesser’ country was operational and asked to borrow their engineer. The US troops were informed that all soldiers of that country were trained in basic operations as in MOD assembly. The US troops were loaned a MCpl to teach them.
True story from Iraq … a British engineer asked to see a US serviceman’s pistol, it was filthy. While the engineer cleaned and showed him how to maintain it, the US serviceman explained ‘all they teach us is to run a brush up the barrel’.
Ponder the implications.
Thank you Saker for this analysis. I agree with you and I also believe that the risk of war has never been greater. The reason is that this world is not driven by reason but by insanity. And insanity cannot be explained: this is why it is called insane. It makes no sense.
The war machine is not a single entity. It is a system of violence that can start anywhere and rapidly expand beyond control. This system has never been so elaborate and destructive. In addition to that, the world is being subjected to an incredible variety of assaults and is under extreme stress. To name but a few, we have Fukushima that is progressively destroying the Pacific ocean and eventually the entire planet, the world is subjected to global warming that generate extremes in weather events, our overpopulation is unsustainable, and we see the emergence of two alternate governance and economic systems where one is a rabid aggressor while the other tries to create a space where people can work together.
The triggering point may be the group of desperate oligarchs that controls half of the world and impacts the whole planet with the effect of increasing tensions to a point of rupture. Yesterday for example, the House of Representatives passed a bill forbidding states from requiring GMO food labeling, or from banning GMOs within their states. This goes completely against the will and the wellbeing of the people, but the oligarchy cannot care less.
When I look around I only see a desperate planet on its last breath. This is not the time to run to any of these religious brainwashing machines (another creation of the world), but this is definitely the time to bring the true spiritual world into our daily reality. True understanding is what brings peace.
SunLion,
SunLion,
Every oligarchy spreads the hoax that there is overpopulation. “The Old Oligarch” of classical Greece thought so too. In any case the population of developed countries always falls. This is the case today for the US and EU — even including immigration. Wm Engdahl documents the recent fall of population world-wide. Quite shocking:
http://journal-neo.org/2015/01/01/world-overpopulation-hold-on-buddy/
Global warming is another hoax by the oligarchical gangsters. One of its uses is to slow the development of the poorer countries. Another is to deflect environmental activists away from the real problems of Fukishima, US use of “depleted” uranium weapons, GMOs and their pesticides, and pollution by the major transnational corps.
The only increase in unusual weather events points to cooling, not warming, and is caused by a shift in the jetstream. Here is an inspirational video of a young scientific team who have prevailed in the fascinating demonstration that the interaction between cosmic rays and the sunspot cycle are the major determinants of the natural warming/cooling cycle of our planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hEIf-NMu8Y&list=PLjH9zd48xmP9J_4Jah1IHBzmWwEFOG4mJ&index=15 THE MYSTERY OF THE CLOUDS
Although I do not like to argue via links, I feel obliged to point out that there is no “recent fall of population worldwide”. World population is expected to grow by at least a couple of more billions until 2050:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45165#.VbKhufkyfIM
Thank God population growth is beginning to slow down somewhat, it is not an exponential growth anymore, but population is still growing and is expected to plateau somewhere around 10 billion people. Needless to say, this creates a lot stress on the planet and the ecosystems that sustain us as a species. We should not ignore that, ecologically speaking, one US American is a bigger burden than 10 Indians, so it is not the poor who are the problem. Nevertheless, if you go to a crowded slum area in one of those sprawling Indian cities and say that overpopulation is not a problem, people might not agree with you. Hopefully we can manage to live on a planet with 9 or 10 billion people, but it is not going to be without some problems.
The Youtube-link you provided appears not to be available. Now, if I recall correctly, climate change is viewed as a divisive topic by the author of this site which should not be the focus of the discussions, but let me just say this: in a world where the Northwest passage over the Arctic has just now started to become a viable commercial route, to claim that the Earth is actually cooling seems a little bit surreal, to say the least.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage
Best regards, Zuzim
@Zuzim, I’m ethnically Indian. I lived in Chennai for two years (which is crowded, according to Western standards). I never once heard people complain about over-population. And, honestly, once I got out of the city, I was struck by how much empty space there was.
Regarding food, I was flabbergasted as to how much food is wasted. In India, the problem is the lack of good governance, not the lack of resources per se. Hopefully, things will change with the new government.
Avarachan
Operative phrase:
I lived in Chennai for two years (which is crowded, according to Western standards). I never once heard people complain about over-population. And, honestly, once I got out of the city, I was struck by how much empty space there was.
Likely any denizen of Manhattan would feel the same. But why should their views matter to those who see beyond the total urbanisation/suburbanization ways of subverting ecology to ZPC/NWO fascist interests? Hell, we got got cities, we go suburbs, all human, all domesticated, rural is for corporate farming, fracking, and open pit mines.Wilderness, nature? Who needs it? We got gmo, zio-media, and sayanim? What’s not to love about this “progress”?
Avarachan,
I met some elderly people in India who did complain that the cities had gotten dirtier and more crowded over the decades. Not that I expect that everyone would talk about that, it’s also a question of what you’re used to. Anyway, my point is that overpopulation also affects our quality of life. If you have ever been to a crowded beach or a packed subway train you probably know what I mean. In many countries there is very little pristine nature left at all, which I personally think is a great loss.
@Zuzim
Regarding Avarachan’s response to you that people in Chennai (his residence), don’t feel overcrowded., Here are a few things for you to consider:
Manhattan has a pop density of 10,000 people per sq km. Monaco (a high consumption area) has a population density of 18,000 per sq km higher than most Chinese or Indian cities, are you going to tell me that all the flora and fauna of Monaco had been denuded? Clearly not (if your dealing in facts); Monaco and Manhatten authorities have done a much better job in planning and management than a less population dense area like New Delhi (11,000 persons per sq km) which is a hodge podge of chaotic development, urban misplanning and incompetent statistical sizing and traffic engineering. These are facts, these are the real numbers and not subjective opinions.
Chennai is a much better managed city and the people there don’t feel over crowded, neither do the people in Monaco. The key here is good management and technology. Aside from that, – cities are bad example anyway, the rural regions of the largest countries, India and China, are relatively empty: you can travel for hundreds of miles and not meet a single person.
Regarding the Developed countries wasteful production model: You are right. –>American/European/OECD consumption models are destructive and wasteful; so let’s change the destructive/wasteful consumption model instead of being deceived that it is population that’s the main problem. The same establishment people that propagandize to us about global warming and carbon credits are the same group of fraudsters that impose trade models that encourage fresh fruits and vegetables being grown half way around the world and then transported to your country (using diesel and kerosene, hydrocarbons) when those same items could be produced locally (creating far less pollution and a fresher product) Thanks to their fiat currencies and currency manipulation they bamboozle us into believing it is cheaper to produce (including shipping costs) apples and apple concentrate in China than in Europe. Suddenly these same establishment people are utterly silent about the additional environmental pollution that this involves. If these people were serious about environment destruction and “global warming” they’d shut down this type economic model, the fact that they do the exact opposite tells me that that all this environment rhetoric from the “Carbon-credit” Western oligarchs is clearly a charade –> actions speak louder than words.
Saying there is plenty of “flora and fauna” is a rather disingenuous reply to Zuzim talking about lack of “pristine nature”. At least show enough respect to the person to address the real points they make instead of creating a strawman argument you can then easily shoot down.
The point I was making that despite Monaco being so population dense, it’s a beautiful and livable place with greenery and natural spaces. This is due to good planning, management and money (technology). I even made the point that since these are urban centers, the argument of the pristine nature argument is not appropriate (“-cities are a bad example anyway”)- unless you’re talking about Rio De Janeiro and Barra-Tijuca forest.
The real straw man argument is that physical presence of humans means that even the rural areas are crowded and no pristine areas exist (this is MSM propaganda): human beings are using very small areas of global landmass (because we’re being concentrated into cities). The real damage is our OECD consumption practices, economic model and primitive/polluting means of production (for non-essential and over-consumption purposes). On this point I agreed with zuzim.
Now to zuzim’s response to me? I made the point that today the world is producing enough food to feed 10-11 Billion people, (using relatively inefficient (on average), and haphazard production means: yields in Asia and Africa are several multiples below Europe’s and the US). Using more efficient agricultural techniques and efficient distribution, storage, etc we can concievably reduce land use for food production. He completely ignored that point, he completely ignored the point that this “problem” can solved by good management and technology.
This isn’t supposed to be personal, I’m just putting ideas and counter-arguments out there: I will make mistakes. That doesn’t mean I have bad intent: it could be that I’m less skilled than you and other users in being diplomatic (I’m working on this flaw).
I edited out the “unnecessary drama”.
“that physical presence of humans means that even the rural areas are crowded and no pristine areas exist”
Had you written that in the earlier comment your comment would not have been criticized, as that is what Zuzim was talking about.
Thank you for your latest feedback, I appreciate it. I forgot which moniker I was using in responding, you’re right, in this thread it gets confusing, if you can fix it and add 3 Cents to the userid, I’d appreciate it. I’ll try to use correct/stay consistent with my ID/moniker in the future.
Best regards and thanks.
Cheers, will do.
This will be my final reply on this topic.
First of all, let me clarify that my main point was that the potential problems that come with a high world population are primarily environmental. The thing about crowded cities was perhaps a little bit besides the point. I am not trying to suggest “that physical presence of humans means that even the rural areas are crowded and no pristine areas exist”. By all means, even if we were 100 billion people there would be plenty of empty space to go around. However, humans need resources to live, and those resources require land to produce. To understand the unsustainability of consumption levels in many countries, primarily in the West, one measurement that I recommend people to look at is the “Ecological footprint”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ecological_footprint
This measurement, although admittedly crude, tries to measure how many “global hectares” are needed to sustain consumption levels of individuals, and ultimately, countries. We here find that some countries, such as the US, Saudi Arabia, Sweden and to some extent even Russia, are “ecological debtor countries”. This basically means that if everyone lived like an American/Swede etc, there wouldn’t be enough global productive hectares of land to meet consumption needs. This is the reasoning behind the statement you sometimes hear from environmentalists that “if everyone lived like an American, we would need so-so many extra planets.”
So, like I said earlier, it is not the poor people who are the problem. If everyone lived like the average Indian farmer, many environmental problems would diminish. But at the same time, “we” relatively affluent people sitting here by our computers hardly have the right to tell other people that they do not have the right to industrialise. To live as a small-scale farmer with little technology is a harsh life which people understandably want to escape from. The problem then, from an environmental perspective, is not so much that population is growing per se, but rather the conjunction between a growing world population and a global aspiration to increase consumption levels among people in all countries. Let me emphasise clearly: I am not saying that poor countries do not have the right to industrialise, that poor people do not have the right to aspire to higher consumption levels. They do have that right. But it just makes it obvious that the whole “American (and western) way of life” is itself unsustainable.
Now, it is true that rich countries often have less environmental problems than poor ones. This is due to at least two factors I believe: firstly, the dirtiest production is usually outsorced to poor countries, even when the final product goes right back to rich consumers. Secondly, since the industrial revolution we have been relying on fossil fuels which have relieved pressure on forests for fuel, among other things. It has also released plenty of land that was previously used to grow food for work animals, fibre for clothing etc. Now fast forward a few decades when fossil fuels will start to become more and more scarce and unprofitable. Will we be able to draw entirely from solar power and other renewables for our energy needs? Personally I doubt it. It is not difficult to see then, that in a post-fossil fuel world, where world population will be at 10 billion people rather than 1 billion around the time of the industrial revolution, that this will lead to some serious pressure on forests and agricultural land.
As if this wasn’t enough, throw climate change into the mix and you can see that we are going to be in some serious trouble. And please, the Arctic is melting before our eyes so let’s not keep debating this. Of course you may well argue that technology and increased efficiency will help us produce enough food (and more importantly, water) and I can only hope you are right. Machines usually need significant energy inputs though so they may not they may not be of great help in a future energy-scarce world.
Finally, let me just say that the real environmentalists, according to me, are not the ones talking about carbon credits (which is indeed a scam) or advocating free trade on food or suggesting that we should put a monetary price on ecosystems (which will just make them more interchangeable). The true heroes are common people who are not defending Nature as an abstract idea, but who defend their local ecology from pollution and destruction because they depend on it immediately for their sustenance. First Nations in Canada, campesinos in South America, tribals in India… in Ecuador they actually succeeded in writing the Rights of Mother Earth into the constitution (although it is yet to be followed in practice). But of course, all the worlds liberals (and many others) will just laugh at such a concept.
Best regards
we produce enough calories to feed 14 billion people a year right now and look at how things are distributed….and wasted! Not good omens.
RR
Zuzim, Re: your response to Penelope’s comment and your claim of so-called over-population.
You’re wrong, even deutchebank says you’re wrong: population has already peaked insofar as live births are concerned, any additional growth in population will be due to increased lifespan: that will add under a billion to the global pop causing the peak to be capped at 8.5Billion, at that point a radical drop in population thereafter.
China’s already below replacement (1.7births per couple), however you take into account the deficit of females (due to sex selection abortion), they are even worse shape (1.4births/couple). Even India, which had an apparently healthy growth rate of 2.6 children/couple is, in fact, barely at replacement (due to sex selection issues) at 2.3 children / couple. (due to the harsher/tougher environment in developing countries like India and China, their replacement rate set at approx: 2.3 births per couple compared to Europe, with it’s easier conditions, where only 2.1 births per couple are required maintain population levels). Those 2 countries represent 40% of the globe.
Why does deutchebank care? Because Germany is an export oriented economy and a falling population will cause catastrophic implosions of major economies (affecting exporters and Banks in a bad way). Just look what happened to Russia while it was losing a million people a year (Yeltsin years).
Penelope is right, you’ve been taken by Anglo-Malthusian propaganda (not just you, but most of us at some point in our lives fell for some of these lies).
I’m not going to provide you with the direct link to Deutchebank study, you need to google it yourself so that you can examine the other links that will show up (along with the link to the study) that provide evidence contrary to the Anglo-Media Leftist propaganda on this issue.
I will leave you with one additional fact: the world wastes at least 40% of all the food we produce, that means we are currently producing (at current technology levels and inefficient yield-levels) enough food to feed 11Billion people -today! Agricultural scientists say that the world has the ability to feed over 50Billion based on raised levels, and developed distribution and storage (insects and rats consume more food than this even now).
The thing is that even if a country like India is nearing the replacement level the population will still grow with a few hundred millions more due to a young population that will also be expected to have around two children per woman. But in any case, whether it’s 8,5 or 10 billion (I personally trust the UN and related experts on this more than Deutsche Bank), if everyone keeps pursuing an American level of consumption there will be little left to exploit in the future, and there will be little room for wildlife. Already species are going extinct at an alarming rate. If world population starts to decline somewhat after it has reached its peak, Mother Nature will be relieved.
Zuzim,
Such an extraordinary amount of money & media control goes into deceiving us– about nearly every aspect of politics & economics. About pharmaceuticals & their safety, etc.
I know that all the media you are likely to have seen has given you a certain view on these two topics, too, so that the contrary view just seems ridiculous to you. That being the case I thank you for your civil reply. I’ve replaced the nonfunctional link above & added another; hope you’ll find it worth your time to look at them.
Regards,
Penelope
And 50 cents of every US tax dollar goes to the military. Think how the world would be without all of this nonsense. The communists are the realists-only a Utopian dreamer would think that capitalism is the last and highest stage of human development, which we can see it is not, and struggle to ensure that this system prevails at all costs-Foolishness Extraordinaire. As Albright said, ” the price we think is worth it.”
RR
This replaces my nonfunctional link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMTPF1blpQ Mystery of the Clouds
http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783 Shows the natural 30-year warming/cooling oscillation, from historical data.
Penelope, Very good.
George Carlin said it so well so many times. RIP mon ami.
Regards, Spiral
““It’s hard to launch a coup against someone who enjoys more than 80 percent popularity,” said Masha Lipman, a visiting fellow at the European Council of Foreign Relations.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-23/murder-poisoning-police-raids-it-s-election-season-in-russia
Anon, seeing as the opinions of the bottom 99.9% don’t amount to a hill of beans in the global overlords’ calculations, Putin’s 80% popularity is no hindrance if the right people can be corrupted to the project. In any case, as Arafat, Chavez and LBJ all show in their different ways, assassination is always an option.
The US & Anglos are smart. They always fight their wars using others. They will just put in a bit.They will not fight on their own. All the problems highlighted above..re: logistics, casualities, motivations, etc…are solved.
@Ox
Have you given the good news to the twenty-eight nations, numerous contractors (in direct competition with each other), available-to-the-highest-bidder mercenaries (including high-value Intel) ?
I would love to comment on this article, but I must travel by plane this week for the first time since 1982. I don’t want to end up on the no-fly list so will refrain from commenting.
That my dear friends is what living in America today has come to.
Be good
As noted, logistics is the key, along with the aversion to casualties, which is why the Outlaw Empire relies on its proxy Death Squads instead of its own troops, supported by its airforces. Currently, there is a drastic lack of imperial stormtroopers–a shortfall of at least 20 million–required to wage war against either Russia or China. Realistically however, an attack on one will draw both together, and the USA lacks the manpower and other resources necessary to wage such a war. That leaves us with Nukes. A nuclear winter will halt the warming of the atmosphere but not the oceans or stop/reverse their ongoing acidification–it will be an On The Beach situation for survivors.
Will the person awarded the presidency of the Outlaw Empire in 2016 embark on such a path of certain destruction, or has Obama already taken the first steps? How certain can Imperial Oligarchs be that life will be worth living after such a war, that they will somehow escape unscathed? Where are their domed or underground cities? If they start building such, then it’ll be time to get frightened.
Jesse Ventura in his conspiracy series has shown us an underground city…..probably this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUigfOc4iw
keep happy……….
Did you know about the Biosphere 2 experiments during the early 1990s? They were a disaster, particularly the inability of the people to cooperate and do the work required for success. Added to that were many construction problems over a very small amount of land. Sure, there’s Cheyenne Mountain where NORAD’s based, and similar sorts of bomb shelters that could be stocked to the gills with MREs, supplied with aquifer-based water, and atomically powered. But, it’s the proven inability of people to get along in stressed environments having no possibility of escape that’s the problem. Plus, what sort of Quality Life is to be had in such a situation? How will the wealthy be able to “enjoy” their wealth? How are a bunch of sociopaths supposed to get along for years?
Spot on !
Thanks
Do a web search for DUMBS, an acronym for Deep Underground Military Bases, which the USA reputedly has not only on land but even under the ocean.
Even the mainstream media has, to a point, alluded to the fact that there may be American underground cities or military bases.
America’s Book of Secrets Season 3 Episode 8 Secret Underground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkRbAMFyG3k
This is one reason why America has been behaving so insanely aggressive around the world.
The Americans may “reason” that they can survive a nuclear World War 3.
Only cockroaches and red ants will survive.
The elites come under the cockroach category.
A nuclear war will likely destroy virtually all life on earth, environmental catastrophe for most and radiation for the rest. I don’t know of anything immune to irradiation larger than virii — and not most of those, maybe none. Maybe a few weird life forms deep in the sea will survive, but of no concern to humans.
Self contained sustainable living environments are at least a few centuries from now and we don’t know how to do it now. The path the empire is on is suicidal at best. It’s insanity.
I suspect that very few advanced species or civilizations survive beyond a few hundred years once they reach the technological stage, something like very few terrestrial species have members which have some form of ‘immortality’, and even very few species — the most simple ones — do not go extinct (and many of those end up adapting to changing environment and mutating into a virtually new species). An advanced technological species must undergo a qualitative change to a higher level of cognition and perception (at least 3rd order) to survive, beyond what is needed to develop the primitive survival abilities to reach the technological stage. You can take the human out of the jungle but it’s much harder to take the jungle out of the human. We are at a critical point now, and will be ‘lucky’ to survive the crises we are creating.
blue, only a miracle will save humanity now. The ruling Western elites, crudely selected for psychopathy over generations, driven by an ideology, ‘Western Supremacism’ that devalues all non-Western, non-elite, life, are Evil Incarnate, and this Evil is so pernicious that it has even interfered with normal instincts for self-preservation. Any ruling caste that produces Trumps, Obamas, Satanyahoos, Camerons, Harpers, Merkels, Poroshenkos etc to lead their populations, is morally insane and spiritually necrotic. The economic, ecological, geo-political and spiritual crises are simply too far gone for much hope of salvation.
well, Mulga..I’m probably letting myself in for your wrath…but I happen to hope that humanity will survive this and I also hope that Donald Trump wins…
Ann
I also hope that Donald Trump wins…
You might want to reconsider…
Donald Trump: ‘Putin has eaten Obama’s lunch’ on Ukraine
The real estate mogul and reality-TV star, who has criticized Putin for sending military troops into Crimea, said Obama must now take fierce steps to prevent the situation from escalating further.
“We should definitely do sanctions and we have to show some strengths. I mean, Putin has eaten Obama’s lunch, therefore our lunch, for a long period of time,” Trump said. “I just hope that Obama, who’s not looking too good, doesn’t do something very foolish and very stupid to show his manhood.”
He appears to be the same as the rest of pindo political crowd with regard to Russia.
hi BT..yes, here’s a small excerpt from a piece by Ron Paul that confirms what you say about Trump
Let’s hope these threats from Clark and Trump are not a trial balloon leading to a clampdown on our liberties. There are a few reasons we should be concerned. Last week the US House passed a bill that would allow the Secretary of State to unilaterally cancel an American citizen’s passport if he determines that person has “aided” or “abetted” a terrorist organization. And as of this writing, the Senate is debating a highway funding bill that would allow the Secretary of State to cancel the passport of any American who owes too much money to the IRS.
Ann, I hope humanity survives, too, but can’t see how.Why do you support Trump, or any of the nutters? To paraphrase John Norton (a local ‘colourful identity’ of the 19th century)they all seem to my eyes to be as scabrous a collection of the genus Homo as is extant (Norton was referring to the English ‘Royal family’).
Ok ok…I guess I read a really hopeful article about Trump last week on RI..Russia Insider….that said that Trump might be our greatest hope because he doesn’t need to tow the zio party line.
Too bad…I wish it were true.
I thought he like Putin and I was hopiing he was more like the Liberty Party….by the way, does the son of Ron Paul follow his dad’s ideas in any significant way ? I don’t know how much Ron Paul caters to the Israeli lobby…can some tell me ?
Ann
hi BT..yes, here’s a small excerpt from a piece by Ron Paul that confirms what you say about Trump
Interesting, Ron Paul is pretty good on individual rights issues. Rand Paul I’m dubious about. He’s not the “political outcast” his father was in American politics, and is much closer to “the machine”. A bad sign.
I’m reminded of the troubles the Jamestown colony had upon its initial planting in Virginia: Too many gold diggers seeking the promised riches instead of preparing for survival–all would have died if not for Powhattan’s generosity to those who would eventually destroy his people. The point being, the .01% will lack the technicians and workers required to survive a nuclear winter regardless of where they hide, nor have all the problems related to such survival been solved–IMO, some are insurmountable.
Surviving Global Warming and its partner Ocean Acidification will be a cakewalk compared to a Nuclear Winter and radically altered biosphere.
“How certain can Imperial Oligarchs be that life will be worth living after such a war, that they will somehow escape unscathed? Where are their domed or underground cities? If they start building such, then it’ll be time to get frightened.”
there are numerous ‘exposes’ all over the internet….
and pictures don’t lie…er… Photoshop …sorry
To expand on my reply to JJ, just how many are the .01%? Well, the Imperial Metropole has about 320 million; so, 32,000 sociopaths, not including their families and slaves. Lets call it 100,000 people. Now, that 100,000 probably won’t agree on just one location for their domed/underground city, thus generating their first headache. And you can be certain MREs will not be the desired fare, except for the slaves; so, space for animal and plant husbandry will be required. My research into growing foods within closed systems similar to Biosphere 2’s exposed a very large list of problems needing to be solved for it to be successful; and the vast majority of them still exist. Then of course, there’re the other .01%ers of the planet allied with the Empire who’ll want in or build their own.
It just might dawn on those .01%ers that it’s easier and safer to NOT have a nuclear war.
When human beings are beans for market, we get bean-counters. When beans for market are food for human beings, we get care-counters.
Saker
I agree, a direct war against Russia is not the ZPC/NWO strategy. They’ll increase the use of their proxy terrorists, lackeys in small colonies to stage provocations, and 5th column elements, as they are doing now. And they’ll continue to ratchet up the propaganda, economic and diplomatic warfare. I do think the pindo wet dream of nuclear primacy is one of the ZPC/NWO longer term goals. My main worry is that these fascist could start a nuclear war if they think they can knock out Russian and Chinese strategic forces in a first strike.
Bot Tak, a sneak nuclear first-strike is US policy, with ‘missile defence’ intended to mop up any surviving missiles and have them detonate over the European ‘sacrifice zone’ rather than the glorious ‘Homeland’. The Americans have long bee boasting of such a capability against Russia and China in elite journals. Now that Iran’s missile program is over for eight years or whatever, have the imperial liars dropped the ludicrous pretense that missile defence batteries in Lithunazistan or wherever are directed against Iran? I seriously doubt it.
Mulga, They are adding more Anti-Missile Defense– in Poland. It has been explained that these are a precaution in case Iran should wish to launch non-nuclear missiles at the US. I’m not kidding! I read it yesterday, maybe on RT.
Penelope, what is intriguing about these Zionazi lies is not just their laughably moronic impudence, but the utter refusal of any of the vermin in the so-called ‘Free Press’ to ever have the intellectual honesty and moral decency to point out this fact. It would take five minutes reading to discover that the ‘missile defence’ system is integral to US first-strike nuclear attack policy, that the USA has strategic doctrine that envisages such a first-strike against several countries including Russia and China, and that the USSR and Russia have been stating that, and that ‘missile defence’ renders Mutual Assured Destruction irrelevant and makes the world much more dangerous, but no MSM scum-bag would ever dare say so, because their careers would end on the spot.
Right Sector, ISIL Are Same Thing – French Expert
The Ukrainian neo-Nazi militant group Right Sector poses a huge threat to entire Europe and it is similar to the Islamic State [ISIL] currently terrorizing the Middle East, said Pierre Lorrain, a French journalist and expert on Russia and the former Soviet Union.
The Right Sector can turn Ukraine into a hotspot of violence at the gates of Europe and which could then spill into Europe, Lorrain said.
“I think that both the Daesh [ISIL] and the Right Sector are terrorist organizations, as they exist only because of fear that they induce to local populations,” Lorrain told Sputnik in an interview.
Both ISIL and the Right Sector emerged with the help of the United States. Washington financed the extremists in Ukraine to overthrow the government of former President Viktor Yanukovych. The same thing happened in Syria: the US government knew about the surge of various terrorist groups in the country, but ignored the situation and even supported some of the groups to counter the government of Bashar al-Assad. A few years later this resulted in the rise of ISIL.
More and more people are realising that these terrorist groups are essentially irregular proxy armies of the ZPC/NWO.
Also:
Suspected ISIL Recruiters Detained Near Moscow
At least 30 suspected ISIL recruiters were detained in Balashikha, about 20 km east of the Russian capital, social media reports suggested on Friday.
Russian Interior Ministry officials have confirmed to RT that they made arrests in Moscow’s suburb.
More than 30 people were detained in a mosque on Pervomayskaya Street in suspicion of distributing extremist materials and volunteers recruintment, according to a post on the town’s community Facebook page.
According to the Russian Interior Ministry more than 300 specialists were allocated to fight ISIL in Moscow. The Federal Security Service (FSB) has also created special unit to fight ISIL recruiters in the North Caucasus, especially in such regions as Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, Adygeya, Karachaevo-Cherkessia and Chechnya.
The Islamic State is an extremist group, notorious for its human rights atrocities, that has seized large parts of Iraq and Syria over the past three years.
I do not doubt the above explanation for the rise of ISIS: “the US government knew about the surge of various terrorist groups in the country, but ignored the situation and even supported some of the groups to counter the government of Bashar al-Assad. A few years later this resulted in the rise of ISIL.” However, what I wonder is whether this really amounts to the same thing as ISIS being a proxy of the US. The question is, can the US direct ISIS somehow, to attack whom they want them to attack? Personally I doubt that is the case, rather I’m thinking it is simply a classic case of divide and conquer, or divide and destroy/render harmless, or as some CIA-agent put it: let the Sunnis and Shiites bleed each other white. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40777.htm
I also think this article is pretty interesting. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/how-saddam-husseins-former-military-officers-and-spies-are-controlling-isis-10156610.html
It makes the case that the ISIS insurgency is largely homegrown, with former Baathists as officers and with a brutality and bloodlust that goes right back to the late Saddam regime.
Obviously I am a complete amateur in this kind of analysis but at least this is the picture that makes the most sense to me: a brutalized mix of Sunni Arab Baathist nationalism, cloaked in Takfiri ideology, at various points supported by foreign interests for various reasons, but nevertheless retaining an agenda and agency of its own.
This is so old that it goes back thousands of years and the british empire made an art of it and ruled the world. In india they found a few traitors and were able suppress all opposition. Considering alexander who conquered everything within reach but was afraid of some of the minor empires in the indian subcontinent, you can imagine what forces they were facing. The moguls were not at their greatest but they were still a force to be recognized with and so were some of the others. The Chinese were much smaller but they were not insignificant either.. ISIS is a direct creation of the US and take orders from the US. Just like those Indians and Chinese who were able to help the british rule india and keep china in check. You really think a population of like 20 million can rule an empire of a billion? In most cases they never even used british troops, they only used british officers and locals as soldiers. It is amazing how they could go to war and attack everyone. Even when india was fighting the british, the british were using Indians to fight the germans in Africa and Europe and the Japanese.
I am sure the average moron taking orders are against doing the world of the slavers.. But that don’t matter and a few rogues go off the reservations like the attack in Turkey.. But the top management are trained, funded, guided and take orders from nato cronies. I am absolutely sure of this and after watching this closely for a decade I am without doubt. By now everyone knows it as well. You think brics are doing all they can to undermine the az empire because they hate using the US$? that’s only part of it, more than anything they know they are on the target list for these types of asymmetric attack as they have already experienced them under other names.
The creation and growth of Daash derives directly from the Israeli policy, first openly articulated in Oded Yinon’s infamous (if thoroughly suppressed in the Western MSM) Zionist Plan for the Middle East. That was to set the Shia, Sunni, Kurds etc, at one another’s throats, to break up Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc into powerless statelets in a state of perpetual internecine war, to make the creation of ‘Eretz Yisrael’, ‘From the Nile to the Euphrates’ possible.
The de-Baathification policy was deliberately chosen to alienate the Sunnis. Policing was strictly sectarian and hostile, Baghdad was forcibly cleansed into areas of separate sectarian loyalties and the ‘Salvador Option’ of death-squad terror was mobilised by the veteran of Central American death-squad slaughter, Negroponte, and his off-sider Ford, later heavily involved in the jihadist attack on Syria.
Along the way the Zionazis broke up Sudan (a vow they made in 1967)Libya, Somalia, and installed takfiris in power in Libya. All in plain sight, all ignored by the Western MSM scum. Now, either Daash is out of control, or, more likely, Israel has double-crossed its Qatari and Saudi allies, and is directing it and their other stooges, al-Nusra Front, to turn on Turkey (another active collaborator in the creation of Daash, but reviled by the Zionazis)Saudi Arabia, Iran and eventually, Central Asia, Russia and China. The logic is one of eternal and ineradicable hatred of ALL goyim, so manifestly exhibited by Satanyahoo and the various religious fundamentalist and secular fascist racist who comprise his regime. With the USA, UK, Canada, France etc all totally controlled by their Jewish Fifth Columns, there is nothing to stop Israel from this insane project.
I think your analysis is spot on and makes the most sense in the big global picture, there’s no way that Russia, China and their allies don’t know this but it seems to me that they keep having to wait and react to provocations from the hegemon as against being pro-active. I believe this will change when the hegemons proxies push too hard one day and they will get the fright of their soon to be terminated lives, the trick for the good guys is at the same time managing to expose the hegemons antics to their own populations so that the emperor is left visible for all to see without any clothes. then it’ll be game on.
Slan
Zuzim,
The analysis that you are relying on DOES sound perfectly reasonable. But they are fibbing to you. The first good source we had that the US had decided to groom Islamists as mercenary proxies was Seymour Hersh’s “The Redirection”, an article published maybe in 2007.
Regarding ISIS, here’s some documentary proof:
5/23/15 http://www.sott.net/article/296809-Secret-Pentagon-report-reveals-West-saw-ISIS-as-strategic-asset A declassified secret US government document obtained by the conservative public interest law firm, Judicial Watch, shows that Western governments deliberately allied with al-Qaeda and other Islamist extremist groups to topple Syrian dictator Bashir al-Assad.
The revelations contradict the official line of Western government on their policies in Syria, and raise disturbing questions about secret Western support for violent extremists abroad, while using the burgeoning threat of terror to justify excessive mass surveillance and crackdowns on civil liberties at home.
Among the batch of documents obtained by Judicial Watch through a federal lawsuit, released earlier this week, is a US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) document then classified as “secret,” dated 12th August 2012.
—
I’m sure you know that all armies require a supply line. Unlikely as it will seem to you, ISIS is supplied thru an airport in Turkey, a NATO member. The weapons are US, paid for by Saudis & Qatar. They are trucked over the Turkish border. When wounded they are cared for in Turkey and Israel. Turkey maintains a “refugee camp” which is actually a rest camp for them. US trains them in Turkey & Jordan.
To catch up on ISIS, etc. I would recommend Tony Cartalucci’s articles.
On almost any topic, including ISIS, I personally rely on two sources: nsnbc international, where you can search within the site to research topics. Also, Globalresearch.ca, which has extraordinary value as a research tool.
I look forward to your comments in future. They are well thought-out, and I can tell that you take the truth seriously.
Thank you for you considerate reply. The link you are providing about the Pentagon report is very interesting and worth looking in to. Note that I did not say that ISIS could never have been supported by the US and their allies, what I question is the view that it is a complete puppet of foreign powers. I have also looked at Seymour Hersh’s article about US support for Sunni militants against the emerging “Shiite crescent” in the Middle East. None of it conflicts with my view. As for the rumors about how ISIS militants are trained in Turkey and have received medical care in Israel, I don’t consider that unlikely, however the situation is complicated by things like the recent ISIS attacks in Turkey, which would hardly be approved by Turkey and NATO, or would it? As for the Saudis, if they are really supporting ISIS, why are they at the same time so terrified of them that they are building a great wall along their northern border to keep them out?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2912334/The-Great-Wall-Saudi-Arabia-Kingdom-plans-build-600-mile-barrier-Jordan-Kuwait-response-threat-invasion-ISIS.html
Not to mention that they recently arrested ISIS sympathizers in Saudi Arabia: http://www.rt.com/news/310192-saudi-arabia-isis-arrests/
My thinking is, there may be plenty of foreign powers who threw money at ISIS and similar groups, but now they have burnt their fingers and are trying to contain the monster they helped spawn and keep it in check. I don’t think they can control it.
I do care for truth, and I’m doing my best trying to make sense of things without jumping to conclusions. As for the Global Research website, I do rely on it sometimes, but I have found some articles to be rather speculative. I will post more comments here occasionally, but I like to think for a while first. :)
Best regards
Zuzim, the reports of al-Nusra butchers being treated in Israeli hospitals and even visited there by Satan-yahoo are FACTS, openly reported in the Israeli MSM. And it is a FACT that the UN complained of open Israeli collaboration with al-Nusra inside Syria, putting UN peace-keepers at risk. Facts, not ‘rumours’.
Al Nusra yes, but al Nusra is not ISIS. Al Nusra indeed seems to be more or less a proxy – even Qatar’s Al Jazeera Arabic now openly supports it, according to Pepe Escobar. But I think ISIS is a different case.
Best regards
Snowden is a CIA mole sent to destroy the NSA. And ISIS is the NSA to al Nusra’s CIA.. does it really matter to those who lost their heads who it was?
And for that matter does it matter which country in the EU? Or state in the US or nato member?
They all take their orders from a single point. Even Qatar and Saudi Arabia does.. trying to distinguish the tentacle of the vampire squid is making excuses because each limb does its own thing.
Zuzim,
“… I question the view that it is a complete puppet of foreign powers.”
If I understand your point correctly, I have come to a similar view that we’re seeing something more complex than the garden variety “proxy” model.
The idea that these groups are formed with a view to directing them as you would a regular army – direct execution of direct orders – is obsolete. This is a much more dangerous game. These groups are encouraged and partially co-opted during their formative stages in anticipation of their future utility, but their utility is non-standard. The group has it’s own raison d’etre, and agenda. There may be more than one sponsor, and the sponsors’ interests may not coincide.
The result is a mix of useful idiots, rogue actors, occasional enemies.
The strategic goal in fostering and encouraging them is:
– to gain more advantage from them than your adversary, and
– that they do more damage to your adversary than they can or will to you
– to introduce a layer of chaos that renders your adversary’s diplomatic strategy, information warfare, and/or military response less effective.
So, whether their formation was spontaneous or “seeded”, their development and utility is as organic organizations that are not under one’s direct control. If the metaphor fits, they’re a ship with several rudders, one or more of which you control, but the rest are controlled by others (and you may not even know who they are). The advantage is that your “inside track” enables you to develop contingency plans more effectively than your adversary who controls none of the rudders.
Does any of this make sense?
Yes, this makes somewhat sense to me. Which only underscores how complex the situation is. I think for now I will just wait and see how things develop. As time goes by it will probably become clearer just what is the nature of this organisation.
Thanks all for the discussion
Zuzim, ISIS attacking Turkey is an interesting matter. Could be, as you say, that they are out of control of their creating alliance. But it seems kind of too crazy to me to find them just attacking willy-nilly even more countries when they’ve yet to master one.
Some writers have speculated that the ISIS attack in Turkey is a warning to Turkish Prez not to become gas hub for Russia; it’s OK to supply his own gas from Russia, but not to serve as an EU hub. Turk’s Prez already got one big warning when they cut into his electoral victory.
Building the wall probably has as much to do w the Kurds, I’m thinking. At any rate Turkey is still trucking supplies into Syria & still shooting at any Syrian aircraft that tries to interdict them. Also they may be anticipating huge growth in Syrian refugees.
ISIS attacks in Saudi Arabia is another interesting one. I’ve been following it for some time. Originally I thought it was just PR. Now, I’m not so sure. But the Saudis & Qatar continue to pay ISIS. US admits to paying its “moderate” recruits $400/mo.
There are reports that the commanders who were formerly from Mid-East are now Russian-speaking– recruited from disgruntled Chechen opposition and Caucasus. The import of which is supposedly that ISIS will soon be moving East.
I don’t know; we’ll see. None of it’s good. Thanks for the response.
Zuzim, In case you missed it, I just saw that Veritas posted this link from Hurriyet:
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/24/421691/Turkey-US-Syria-nofly-zone-Erdogan-Davutoglu-ISIL
Dreadful. Shades of Libya.
Penelope, I remember at the time of the beginning of the takfiri invasion of Syria, that the US ‘Ambassador’ Robert Ford, one of the death-squad bosses from the ‘Salvador Option’ in Iraq visited parts of Syria to stir up trouble. Why countries tolerate these Nazi vermin traveling around stirring up civil war and genocide is beyond me, I must say. Within weeks the first expertly filmed terrorist videos of attacks in Syria began to appear on the news. These so-called ‘Free Syrian Army’ thugs, supposedly dedicated Jeffersonian, ‘Free Market;’, ‘good-guys’ just like ‘US’ in the glorious West, greeted all their attacks with hysterical screeching of ‘Allahu Akbar!!!”. Funny, thought I-that sounds like jihadist fanatics to me, but not, of course, to the MSM scum, who ‘see nothing’, ever.
Within weeks I was able to read that the German BND intelligence agency had told Merkel that the ‘FSA was al-Qaeda’, surprise, surprise, and one woman who had long lived in Syria was allowed to post Comments in the ABC radio programs here stating that all her friends in Syria were telling her that the insurgents were all foreign terrorists. Needless to say they soon shut her up. Of all the satanic crimes of the USA throughout the last few centuries, the destruction of Syria ranks as one of the worst.
I know that it seems like Syria is finished ruined and done, but I have hope that Assad will stay in power. I can only hope. but until he’s gone its still Syria and given time will repair.
Did not Putin speak of a (Nato? ,US ?) legionary force of the Ukraine ?
@zuma
This is the best article I’ve read on the issue:
http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=212463&frid=31&cid=31&fromval=1&seccatid=91
Note: it was written before the Saudi-led Yemen invasion, which was the base for numerous US-directed drone attacks.
Re US culpability in ISIL (and the ‘Caliphate’ project: some CIA experts are on record as saying US policy wrt ISIL would expose M.E. Christians to grave danger – since proved exactly right. That makes the proxy/opportunist distinction pretty irrelevant.
The Independent (owned by an ex-pat Russian oligarch and far from Putin-friendly) would not publish anything on ISIL that wasn’t approved by MI6/CIA. Mr L does not want his assets impounded.
eimar, the Middle Eastern Christians were deliberately sacrificed in pursuit of the Zionazies’ ‘Clash of Civilizations’ policy. The Zionazies pulled off 9/11 etc to create a Christian/Islamic religious war, as Osama observed when he strenuously denied involvement in the 9/11 atrocity. Moreover, as Land Destroyer notes, the Daash policy of destroying religious, including Islamic, Holy sites (but not Judaic, apparently-how odd)and archeological sites from the long history of the peoples living there, is a policy of destruction of those peoples’ heritage and history. They are being cleansed from history, the evidence of their existence obliterated, to end their link to and claim over the land. Only one power benefits from that, the malignant force that claims, by Divine Decree, that all these lands, in fact, always and forever belong to them, not the millennial inhabitants-the Zionazies.
Here’s a question for Saker:
If the barking mad Neocons in their groupthink bubble precipitate a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia, what would China do?
Which leads to a second question: Would the USA take out China too or wait?
I ask this question because assuming the Neocons thought they could eliminate Russia then clearly the only country left ‘threatening’ Neocon hegemony is China. China obviously knows this.
If the barking mad Neocons in their groupthink bubble precipitate a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia, what would China do?
Probably stay put. No rational leaders would ever voluntarily enter into a nuclear conflict. Besides, the US and Russian nuclear arsenals are so much bigger and more complex than the Chinese, that Russia would not even need China to “help” or get involved in any way.
Which leads to a second question: Would the USA take out China too or wait?
I don’t believe that the USA would deliberately attack Russia but IF they did, they would have about 30-45min before the Russian counter-attack would hit the USA. At that point all bets are off. Also, if the USA wanted to strike Russia, I don’t see any rationale for also hitting the Chinese as this would expose all the US forces in Asia to Chinese retaliation. But I cannot begin to imagine how somebody could recommend a first nuclear strike on either the USA or Russia. China, maybe, and even that would be extremely dangerous and irresponsible. But striking Russia or the USA is totally *insane*.
Kind regards,
The Saker
Many thanks; I asked because of the danger of warhawk lunacy that could incrementally with brinkmanship start the dominoes falling without actually intending to go all out :
“The US is playing a dangerous game of nuclear brinkmanship. Robert Scher, undersecretary of defense, has even floated the idea of a nuclear first strike against Russia. Claiming that Russia has violated the INF Treaty by testing a banned ground-launched cruise missile, Scher laid out possible options in testimony before Congress:
“Robert Scher, assistant secretary of defence for strategy, plans and capabilities, told politicians in April that one option could be to beef up defenses of potential targets of the Russian cruise missile.
“A second option could ‘look at how we could go about and actually attack that missile where it is in Russia,’ Scher said.
“And a third option would be ‘to look at what things we can hold at risk within Russia itself,’ Scher said.
“His comments appeared to signal employing forces to strike at other Russian military targets — apart from the missiles that allegedly violate the INF accord.
“Brian McKeon, deputy undersecretary of defense for policy, told politicians in December that the United States could consider putting ground-launched cruise missiles in Europe. Such weapons are banned under the INF treaty.” ”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-15/obamas-anti-russia-policy-escalates-dod-tells-congress-nukes-are-still-table
I don’t really understand about it all…if the US ‘first strikes’ Russia…how is Russia supposed to retaliate.?..but I guess when a nuclear bomb blows…there’s a time frame of about a few hours before it actually obliterates its object ?
Ann–Nuclear war as war gamed is something like tennis but you “return” the volley before any “balls” hit your (Russia’s) court. All assets would be used–land and sea-based ICBMs plus gravity bombs and cruise missiles launched from planes and seaborne platforms. And it is always an all-in, total effort. Then and only then will we learn how effective the various ABM systems are. But just a small fraction of warheads need to penetrate the defenses to do their work, with both sides having more than enough to devastate each other. That’s why it was called MAD–Mutually Assured Destruction–and worked as a deterrent.
Outlaw Historian, at no stage after 1949, when the USSR detonated its A-bomb, did the USA cease to strive for nuclear supremacy, ie the ability to destroy its enemies yet escape more or less unscathed itself. These efforts continue to today, even after the cataclysmic effects of a ‘nuclear winter’ are well-described, and are freely spoken of in US strategic journals. Missile submarines, cruise-missile, MIRVs, MARVs, ‘Star Wars’, X-ray lasers, ‘missile defence’, hypersonic space-planes, ‘Prompt Global Strike’, and the current, massive, multi-trillion program to update the US nuclear arsenal (in open contempt, as ever, of the NPT) all point to an unceasing US effort to create ‘Full Spectrum Dominance’ over the entire planet. The greatest force for evil, by far, in human history, the ruling US elite will never countenance ‘peaceful co-existence’, will never reform itself and will, barring a miracle, eventually push the world to self-destruction.
Dear Mulga, I really appreciate your comments and please don’t feel that I’m criticizing you because I’m not. But how can you speak of Satanism and not feel the other and opposite power to that ? If the Earth becomes wintered by Nuclear devastation then humanity will have to cope. I can hardly believe that every single person will die…but even if we all do…there is a spiritual world ;and spiritual beings that will also ‘be there’. Somehow evolution will continue. Crippled but never gone.
Ann, I fervently hope you are correct, and I am wrong. Unfortunately I have experienced human evil (although not as tragically as millions of others)throughout my life, as well as human good, and I have come to the opinion that evil has more ‘weight’ than good in human affairs. I look at the elites in my country, Australia, and the rest of the West, and all I see are truly evil psychopaths and morally cowardly fools, the latter of whom seem to think that an irredeemably evil system can be ‘reformed’, although it has been going backwards, morally, intellectually and spiritually, for decades. I think humanity never resolved the question of Evil, and its banal ubiquity and strange attraction. I hope it’s not too late, and we will eliminate the Evil in human souls. Any society that grows from that unlikely victory could achieve tremendous things, but it would be the antithesis of the glorious West.
I totally agree with you…sometimes I wonder if even this zion problem that we are facing today has more to do with money than with anything Jewish or equivalent…not that the Zion problem doesn’t exist…but would it exist without the greed for money and consequently greed for power….that just so happens to be centered in the Zionists now.
And yes, evil is the task facing humanity right now…I totally agree with that. I don’t see the light at the end of the road for humanity either….but I have faith that for the individual…life after death and also for justice in the spiritual sense of the word…karma I guess…what goes around comes around…but in the ‘long term’…
Hello Mulga, Thanks for your reply! I do enjoy your commentary, although I certainly wish it wasn’t needed! Yes, I’m quite aware of the ongoing quest for 1st Strike invulnerability. I also know first hand just how pathetic NBC training is and the equipment provided. What I dread is the manufacture and usage of Droid Armies by the Outlaw Empire. The only hope for human salvation as I see it is to destroy those members of the Outlaw Empire’s Deep State and dismemberment of its capacity to make weapons.
bean counting is just that. All the vast military and financial power of the US has failed to win it a war since 1946. They couldn’t even deal with the taliban, what chance against a well drilled, fully motivated and psychologically fit Russian army? Half of the US army has PTSD, drug & alcohol problems, black America no longer sees the army as a way out of poverty/gang banging (Obamas smart move in amnestying mexicans is the first part in his idea for the latinos to replace the ‘got wise’ blacks as stalwart cannon fodder) Superior fire power has got the US nowhere against countries that for the most part can’t really fire back, all those lumbering navy ships would be dismantled fairly instantly by Russian missiles. The only thing keeping the US even in this game is hubris, plain and simple.
it is just americans are thinking like cowboys confronting indians. russians are not indians and majority of NATO populations will NOT fight for Obama. me first, would rather go to jail than go to war for liars,thieves and killers sitting in Washington, London & Brux. NATO is political and military complex which main purpose is keeping safe vasal states and ruling elite from population. occasionally they go to Africa or M.E. for some bloody robbery. if i watch my cristal ball i see huge problems for americans because they are scattered in hundreds of military bases around globe for same purpose above. to keep eye on friendly governments and own *american way of economy*. they are not ready to fight russians. if they start something, they will not reach homeland alive. and what will US do? defending them all in the same time or watching them dying. i don’t understand how will US defend 53 countries in case 0f war and own hundreds military bases surrounded by populations who loves them much, much….
Dear The Saker,
Thanks for the article. Yes the current pool of US crazies (politicians) frightens the hell out of me.
It looks like while the press talk about Kerry and Lavrov discussing working against ISIL in Doha, the US/Turkey have unilaterally agreed a no fly zone over Syria! Any Syrian warplaes will be shot down in their own territory!:
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/24/421691/Turkey-US-Syria-nofly-zone-Erdogan-Davutoglu-ISIL
Now that is just one example today of the crazies……and why we can’t predict what they will drag us all into.
Rgds,
Veritas
Yes the current pool of US crazies (politicians) frightens the hell out of me.
Me too. Hillary is the most clearly possessed and the dumbest of the lot. But all of them combine mediocrity, ignorance and arrogance. Even worse is that the recent candidates for the post of JCS also look like political appointees of the same mold as David “ass-kissing little chickenshit” Petraeus…
Scary, very very scary…
Perhaps it’s needed to counter the powerful ISIL Air Force?
(mmmm .. there IS an ISIL Air Force, isn’t there? Isn’t there??)
Good article, but it will never come to that. Any type of direct military conflict is unlikely. Proxy wars will keep happening (and wars against weak/small countries).
The weapon systems are being modernized at lightning speed with utilization of modern technologies. 10+yrs from now we will be looking at DRONE forces (air, tanks, artillery), and with high-precision ammo of all calibers e.t.c. It will be more important to have several thousand hi-tech geeks than a million soldier’s army. Making war from you living room. Remember how fast computing developed? Nowdays kids spend days playing those video gamesm… The new, hi-tech arm race is ON.
It is anyone’s guess where will it all end up.
In the meanwhile WW3 is already underway around the globe (number of local conflicts) + the MAIN one is economical war, sanctions, pipelines, hacking attacks e.t.c. It is a slow moving one, and will take long time to win it.
BRICS is just another way of making a modern warfare. A clear attempt to dethrone US dollar, and IMF system.
US and many western countries being weakened by enormous debts, and if BRICS is even partially succesful, we will see some tectonic changes coming our way…
Interesting times are ahead of us.
I have to dissent from the description of Israel’s aggression against Lebanon in 2006 as ‘..unprepared and unforeseen sudden escalation…’. Israel had been itching for years to avenge their defeat by Hezbollah in the years leading up to their retreat in 2000. The Zionazis claim all Lebanon south of the Litani as their divinely ordained lebensraum, gifted them by their very own ego-projection in the sky, Yahweh. The Israeli MSM declared in 2006, as Lebanon was being bombed back to the Stone Age, and the genocidal ‘Dahiya Doctrine’ was getting its first excursion, that the war was ‘the best prepared in Israeli history’, and the preparations had been outlined to the Pentagon some time before. The border incident that was the excuse for the aggression was simply used as a typically ludicrous propaganda trope loyally regurgitated by the Western MSM sewer, just as the shooting of the Israeli Ambassador in 1982 was used as the excuse for that aggression and orgy of mass murder in Lebanon that even the shit-rag ‘Time’ had reported the extensive preparations for weeks beforehand.
When i ask myself the question: “Why are the Americans so Hell-Bent on not permitting others to simply live?”
I would like to suggest we observe Today’s America’s War Couple : Victoria Jane Nuland, and Nuland’s husband, Robert Kagan
Victoria Jane Nuland, (born 1961) is the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State.[1]
Nuland’s husband is Robert Kagan, an American neoconservative historian and foreign-policy commentator at the Brookings Institution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
From the font of The Saker we quite consciously observe, in regards to our Little Jewish Princess Vicky, someone in the active midst of Violence, yet preoccupied – with it’s pleasure – and her husband, receiving corporate cash to pursue Vicky’s dream-world encouraging it even more.
I’m reminded of what happened to a good friend of mine, it’s a Jewish event, where the six-year-old girls are part of ritual 0 satanic (626) and Victoria is ‘acting out the part of the ‘damsel in distress’ unconsciously, of course –
When the Odessa Massacre occurred, the handkerchief placed over Victoria during the event became crystal clear, “Since Humanity wasn’t there for Victoria when she was six, now the world will hear the Cry that no one heard for her”.
Nuland’s Husband fits the part of support during incest, in business and in childhood.
It’s a sad world, the world of the unconscious; yet the actions of Americans have been unconscious for quite some time now –
The War Department existed from 1789 until September 18, 1947
In 1945, The US Military drop Two Offensive Weapons.
In 1949, The War Department’ devilishly rebrands itself, the Department of Defense.
That’s when the Schizophrenia began – UNconsciously, not in awareness.
I need to define two terms: Offensive Weapons and Defensive Weapons.
Offensive Weapons are those that would not be used on your own territory, such as land mines or nuclear weapons (my definitions).
For instance, if America lost the East Coast, and was left with the West, no plan would exist to retreat with land mines and nuke the East Coast –
What this means is that America’s Possession of Nuclear Weapons is part of an Offensive Posture, whereas the Russian Possession of Nuclear Weapons is part of deterrence – Defensive – which means, the Russians would bargain away Nuclear Weapons for an assured Long Term Global Pax Americana also without Nuclear Weapons.
However, the Americans view Nuclear Weapons as part of “What’s on the Table” as US Prez’s are so fond of smirking – and a part of their Manhood – their Masculinity – and that’s a problem, because the American Military Mind is impotent without fear, their rapists for a reason, their afraid of intimacy.
To that last question, yes, in fact basically both corporate parties as a whole scare the hell out of me since neocons basically run the foreign policy show for either one. Add Hillary or Jeb at the helm and you’ve got some serious war mongers who might just start WWIII not by directly attacking Russia, but increased proxy wars and provocations that could spiral out of control. I think Hillary might actually be more dangerous in this regard. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
When it comes to President Putin I agree 100%, he has his goals and they are good ones. Here is why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpKh9QftdXM
When it comes to the presidential candidates of the USA, then I would say, that a war is very unlikely, if Donald Trump, Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders becomes the new Potus.
Greece doesn’t need $10 billion from Russia to print drachmas or grexit, or a sovereign currency based on some external currency (Tsipras was wrong when he said that) — which would not be a sovereign currency then anyway).
once upon a time , a bully won a fight against a weak opponent, not alone mind you , but gathering his friends , he crushed this weak opponent in a massive show of force..
then in another few years , he attacked the same opponent , already weakened , because of false pretext that this opponent have certain weapon that endangers the bully’s home..
all these time the bully boasted to anyone including those in his own home that he is the strongest and no one can beat him in a fight.. this boasting become reality in the mind of the bully that he began to think he is really unbeatable..
because of his arrogance and hubris , he then try to pick a fight between 2 of the biggest kid in his class , at the same time … thinking it will be just as easy to destroy these 2 kids because he believed in his own boasting.
sadly this time it will be different…
it is a simple question really…
if NATO (under US control) attack russia , then the defending nation (russia) will have morale superiority as defender , and the whole nation will rally and unite against the foreign opposition..
what about NATO’s military and civilian ? how they will sell the agression against russia to their own citizens ? without implementing a draft , there wont be any soldier left in a war against russia.. but what western civilian today will accept getting drafted for a war in foreign land without real reason ?
the solution of NATO leaders will be using those eastern european countries to provide the soldiers and let them get killed by the russian , while the western europeans and america just provide minimal man power on the ground..
how long can eastern european people realize that their goverment selling them to the americans to serve america’s hegemony in europe ? how long before they overthrow their own goverment because of this ? look at the polish goverment and their embarassing stance toward USA..
the western european and american will totally bled the eastern european people dry…
You can’t expect people from Central or Eastern Europe to fight Russia (beside stupid Ukros). Never. It’s pure fantasy to imagine European soldiers fighting against Russians on Russian soil.
Americans are crazy and stupid, for them it’s dozens of years overdue to feel like it is to live in war at home.
one additional info about israeli’s lebanon war in 2006
The reason Israeli goverment go to war is because their chief of staff (an ex IAF) promised the war will be won using air power alone and a few ground troops to mop up.. their target was to sanitize the area south of litani river from all hezbollah strongholds.
the IAF then pounded lebanon , north and south , blackmailing the lebanese goverment on total infrstructure destruction if he dont give up hezbollah (as if the lebanese goverment have the ability to kick out hezbollah ???)
after all the bombs were dropped, Israeli made a request that alarmed USAF people. the request is for more smart bombs from US stocks because IAF ran out of guided ordnance just few days into the conflict ( and hezbollah not even fazed and fired even MORE rockets to israel)..
desperate , the israeli began to realize their AIR CAMPAIGN dont work and they unleashed their premier ground troops into lebanon.. to be stopped by hezboolah commandos in everywhere they penetrated.. with casualties mounting and no result of the ground troops.. the Israeli then make an even more stupid decision , to initiate IDF reserves and send them to lebanon , all with no preparation..
imagine , with their trained troops and elite units in trouble penetrating hezbollah’s held area , they send reserves who have even less training (actually no training in the last few years before 2006) and the result showed it self… the ground commanders refused the order to send reserve unit because of the real risk of slaughter / massacre… which was proven when 50 reserve paratroopers foolishly hold up inside a building , and the hezbollah destroyed the WHOLE BUILDING by shooting 2 ATGM , killing and wounding everyone inside..
now now, there’s only 3000 hezbollah south of litani river , and there’s 30.000 total IDF commited.. and the attacked lost because over dependency to AIR POWER..
milomilo, and, once defeated, the Israelis, showing their dedication to ‘Western moral values’, scattered south Lebanon with hundreds of thousands of cluster bomblets, so as to kill returning ‘two-legged animals’, for daring to resist the ‘aristocrats of humanity’ (or is it ‘Gods upon the Earth’?). I remember reading of one farmer who had returned to his home, who reached up to pick grapes on his porch, dislodging a bomblet that blew his head off.
Oh, and Ox – you should take a dekko at this: the complete absence of DoD standard protocols in the shipping of anthrax to contract labs:
http://www.defense.gov/Transcripts/Transcript.aspx?TranscriptID=5654
Note: they openly admit to playing ‘Russian roulette’ to see if putative contractors would conduct tests on samples unaccompanied by death (inactivated) certificates.
This kind of thinking would not inspire confidence in me, if I was a politician in a NATO country.
Does the term ‘Polyanna’ mean anything to you?
It should.
eimar, such actions are clearly training and preparation for the biowarfare attacks that are clearly coming at some stage. as global collapse threatens elite rule.
This video will tell you it’s not so easy to bomb others when the “others” are not “brown people”. Enjoy the truth while laughing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDw-zFFhFgc
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
@O’Connor
Very ‘problematic’. Along with the changing dynamics of the Iran deal and Russian English-language media, targeted countries (by FUKUS, Israel) are fighting back with what one analyst calls the ‘resistance media’:
(From Syria Arab News Agency July 23rd )
Damascus, SANA-Presidential Political and
Media Advisor Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban saw
that Takfiri terrorism that has roiled the
region might be a last-ditch attempt by the
West to forward its agenda.
Speaking at the second session of the
International Media Conference Against
Terrorism which was dedicated to discuss
the role of media, Shaaban warned of its
grave role in altering the Arab culture and
civilization in an attempt to force a radical
change in the region.
“The US seeks to re-mould the countries of
the world according to its own image,” she
added, pointing out that the Arabs are not
averse to change as long as it suits “our
values, ethics, religion and civilization.”
Highlighting the role of media in instigating
conflicts, Shaaban said that the US controls
90 percent of the international media while
the Saudi regime finances more than 80
per cent of the Arab media which, she
said, makes for a dangerous role that
media plays which attempts to fragment
the Arab region.
The axis of resistance, she added, is faring
well with the West realizing that it is unable
to wage wars on the ground, but warning
that it is attempting more dangerous wars
without any boots on the ground or one
dollar spent through a strategy outlined in
1997 by seven think-tanks whose stated
aim is to control the region.
Shaaban said efforts to curb the role of
hostile media in the current conflicts have
so far come up short, hoping that the
conference will be one step ahead in
confronting this role which is “the toughest”
during the current stage.
Shaaban struck an upbeat note saying that
the “resistant world” is racking up
significant victories, citing in particular the
Iranian nuclear deal, the steadfastness of
Syria, the courage of the Russian President
and the developments on the international
arena which she said augur well for the
countries of the axis of resistance.
Participants in the event said that the
current crisis proved that most of the
media outlets are not neutral and they are
actually an accomplice in bloodshed as they
have been trying to reforge a reality that
serves their agendas.
They stressed that the takfiri terrorists’
heavy dependence on media proves that
they are part of a structure that had been
built by intelligence agencies, citing that the
ISIS has more than 90,000 accounts of
Twitter and Facebook in addition to 19
media production companies and an army
of skilled and professional photographers
and journalists.
They also stressed the need to establish a
global media alliance aimed at unmasking
the true face of the Takfiri terrorists,
highlighting the importance of the
conference as it managed to bring together
a large number of journalists from all
corners of the world.
Manal/ M. Nassr
History’s most expensive fighter flop, is still a flop:
US Air Force Tests $391 Billion F-35A Jet’s Cannons, On the Ground
Not ready to fly just yet, the US Air Force was forced to test its F-35A Lightning II fighter jet’s 25 millimeter guns on the ground in a new release by the US military.
The $391 billion dollar project, plagued by over three years of delays, is considered too unsafe to fly by US military’s oversight body, and had to conduct the test on the ground. The test’s goals included testing the gun door and operating mechanism, as the F-35A’s gun is located inside the flight envelope designed to be invisible to radar, unlike the cannon in modification designed for the Navy and Marine Corps.
“The tricky part about this test phase is that the gun will never operationally fire on the ground. To conduct the test, they have to use software to bypass interlocks to make the aircraft think it’s in the air,” the US Air Force said in a release.
Excuses, excuses… :D
The USA & NATO does not have the capability to militarily defeat Russia. Russia has the second strongest military in the world and the largest nuclear arsenal.
The failure of NATO with the bombing of Serbia is well known. Serbia was almost 10 years under sanctions, isolated, with a very weak economy and an outdated military. NATO bombed civilian and industrial infrastructure (hospitals ,schools, bridges, factories etc), and killed innocent civilians in order to demoralise the population. But they failed to destroy the Serbian military.
A direct conflict is highly unlikely at the moment, but not impossible. It is not impossible because Russia is the biggest threat to the establishment of the New World Order of Neoliberal globalisation, a one world government controlled by the transnational elites who promote the interests of the global financial capital, the multinational corporations and the bankers.
Because Russia fights for its sovereignty and is not totally integrated into neoliberal globalisation, according to the “Western” elites it needs to be contained. Their aim is to establish a puppet regime in Russia, and transform Russia into a colony of multinational corporations. They were very close to do it during the Yeltsin era, but Putin stopped it.
The strategy of USA-EU-NATO is to undermine (and overthrow) the Putin government and hurt the Russian economy with the sanctions.
Russia needs to gradually disconnect from neoliberal globalised economy and to promote self sufficiency of the Russian economy. And it is essential that not the whole of Ukraine becomes a puppet regime of USA-EU. Russia needs to build a new alliance of sovereign nations that some european countries inside EU (Greece, Hungary etc) and outside EU (Serbia etc) will join in the future.
If greek people managed to liberate their country from EU-NATO occupation, an a new political regime friendly to Russia was established, that would be a geopolitical game changer
UN Report: Israel in Regular Contact with Syrian Rebels including ISIS
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/un-report-israel-regular-contact-syrian-rebels-including-isis-616404
UN details Israel helping Syrian rebels at Golan Heights
http://rt.com/news/212319-israel-helps-syrian-militants/
Who is Behind the Islamic State? US Media Admits ISIS Bringing Arms, Fighters in From NATO Territory
http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-behind-the-islamic-state-us-media-admits-isis-bringing-arms-fighters-in-from-nato-territory/5462151
This isn’t the first time Israel has worked in collusion with traitorous elements in Muslim societies.Israelis wouldn’t have succeeded as well as they have,if they hadn’t been able to find traitors to serve them in those countries.Those countries,as well as Russia,need a through housecleaning of 5th column elements.
I agree, Uncle Bob 1.
A good selection of material for Zuzim & Erebus to read…(hint, hint) ;D
NATO mission-creep in Odessa:
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&u=https://timer-odessa.net/news/odessu_posetila_delegatsiya_nato_335.html&usg=ALkJrhjoNtStHIcZsrdRUgC9uoLc1dFVgw
“Russia does have the means to basically completely destroy the USA as a country in about 30min (the USA, of course, can do the same to Russia)”
—————————————————————
What happened to the supposedly closed with s-300, s-500 etc. skies over Russia?
Not to be forgotten, what was enough for Iraq is not enough for Russia. US land forces are mere half million… and it is just expeditionary force to deal with banana republics, not Russia kind of major military power. The window of opportunity which existed between 90ès and beginning of 2000ès had closed.
You are not alone. The best way to tell when a country is going down is the caliber or lack of it, of its leadership. The US has not had even adequate leadership since Kennedy. Everyone since has been the pawn of the US foreign affairs establishment; they were neophytes in foreign policy and lacked the needed understanding and guts to stand up to the people who really funded and ran the government. Look at the lack of true democracy in the choice of the US leaders. After Kennedy it was all show for the American public to think that they were still a democracy. Now we are stuck with Bushes, Clintons, and lesser evils. Along with that, the Brzezinski clan now has two generations operating in “counseling” both major parties. Unless Russia keeps to its task and keeps coming up with outstanding leaders, the corruption of the West will accelerate into nuclear annihilation for us all. May God help us!
In a military sense this analysis from The Saker is dead on, but of course we are assuming that the creatures (in Washington and vassal states) who dictate war & peace are logical and sane; I see no such qualities at this time. In my opinion the only thing that can stop this war from going hot is a sudden collapse of the empire; if logic and sanity existed in the decision making process of this plotting, methodical beast power then the situation would never have proceeded to the point we are at now. Human nature at its worst will be the deciding factor and not the fact that attacking Russia is suicide; was it not suicide for the French empire or the Nazi empire? Did military logic or any kind of reason prevail then? Is not this present empire just as delusional or even more so?
The US is preparing for war and the theatre most prepared is the one they are preparing against her own people!
RR
hi. Why would Nato or Russia atack one each other or another country?
This is a quite old comment thread almost a year old … i would suggest you repost your question on a current thread where current commenters are responding … mod-hs
If the Europeans are stupid enough to follow their Washington–Wall Street–Bilderberg masters in an all out war against Russia the entire Western European countries will be gone in a puff of smoke in less time that it takes to say it and most likely the continental US will follow in the next 30 minutes, less time than it takes to watch a The Simpsons episode. Bright spot though, I am in Canada, which most likely will escape the onslaught.