by Auslander
Sketch by Christopher |
I’ve read a lot of reports this morning about, according to The West, the ‘catastrophic defeat of the terrorists and rebels with massive casualties’ and the ‘glorious victory of the Ukraine army in evicting the terrorists from their bastion of Slavyansk’ sometimes followed with ‘the incredible destruction carried out by the terrorists as they retreated through Slavyansk’ and in one article ‘the freeing of the scores of hostages held by the terrorists in some cases for months’. And so forth. On the other side of the spectrum are ‘Putin has to act now to save Novorossiya or he’s done for’, ‘Putin is betraying the people of Donetsk and Lugansk when he said he would save them’, ‘Strelkov is a traitor’ and ‘Strelkov is a coward, he should have fought harder’. And so forth.
All of this is easy to say while we sit in front of our computers in relative comfort. We could just as easily sit here and argue that if Lee had listened to Longstreet and gone around the Yankee army gathering at Gettysburg he could have fought on ground of his choosing, beat the danged Yankees, taken Washington and won the war. We were not there, we were not privy to the conversations, we were not privy to the recon reports nor did we hear the supposed shouts from Richmond to ‘get on with it, win the war’ or the complaints of the citizenry to Lincoln about a rebel army sitting on the doorstep of Washington, just as none of us are privy to what Colonel Strelkov wanted to accomplish, what his information was, what his supply situation was and is, what his orders were and are, his conversations with his subordinates, nothing, nor are we privy to Mr. Putins plans long term and short, his conversations with his advisors and allies, his goals and ambitions.
Most of us only know what we are allowed to know and we know what we know generally after the fact. We can surmise, we can pontificate, but most of us know nothing of what will happen, only what has happened and precious little of that. What follows, and it’s pretty short and sweet, is what I know has happened.
Colonel Strelkov arrived up north in April. He had with him 20 or so men. That’s all. Not all were armed and some of the armed ones had bolt action rifles from the second war. This was the nucleus of what Strelkov built. In the first early weeks several hundreds of men rallied to the new colors and volunteered for service with Strelkov. It was with these men that Strelkov held off the first tentative attempts by the Ukes to enter Slavyansk. It was his men that took Karachun Mountain and it was his men who could not hold the mountain, to be specific the radio/TV tower that used to be up there, against a heavily armed Uke force that was determined to take it back. With the Ukes holding Karachun Mountain (in reality a long series of high hills) they could see all of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk and the surrounding towns and villages, rail lines, the local airports as such, and the main and secondary roads in the whole area. The die was cast. Was it a trap for the Ukes? We’ll find out when the memoirs are written in the coming years.
As the situation developed the Ukes poured in more and more troops to the Slavyansk area, both the regular army and the new ‘national guard’, which is nothing more that right sector under arms. Several of the Uke regular army units refused to fight against their fellow countrymen and one airborne unit surrendered and left, leaving half a dozen light tanks in the possession of Strelkov’s forces. At the same time, in a desperate bid to get more weapons for his burgeoning little army Strelkov’s men took several Militsiya (criminal police, pun intended) and DAI (traffic police, totally corrupt and useless) armories and managed to arm all his men with Kalashnikovs, light and medium machine guns and sniper rifles. Don’t ask me why two police organizations have a huge amount of weapons but they do. We did the same thing here in Krim when we armed up to defend ourselves and our north borders from right sector thugs on their way down here from Maidan.
As time progressed the Ukes began to make stronger attempts to get in to Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. Each and every one failed with sometimes significant losses to the Ukes. It seems that Strelkov always managed to get a few more men where they were needed most at the last minute. At the same time small units began to stalk and hunt the Uke supply columns day and night in addition to small patrol units. In this way antitank weapons, automatic grenade launchers, medical supplies, large ammunition supplies and at least 3 towed twin barrel anti aircraft guns were obtained. Still, Strelkov was fighting on a shoestring and he seems to have known it.
As May ended the bombardments of Slavyansk, Kramatorsk and other towns and villages began. The Ukes installed more and more medium and heavy artillery on the crests of Karachun, both towed and SP. Tanks by the hundreds arrived in the area as did troops by the thousands and BTR, BMP and BMD light armored vehicles in the many hundreds. And still, try as they might they could not break in to either Slavyansk or Kramatorsk although they tried, twice mightily. Each time they failed to enter either city the Ukes increased the level of bombardments. Almost all were not aimed at Strelkov’s men or areas, they were patently aimed at civilian infrastructure, the electric, gas, water and sewage facilities, civilian living areas including not only villages but large areas of 5 to 11 story flats houses, shops and industry. Civilian losses grew exponentially.
Air attacks started in June. In addition to the attack on the administration building in Lugansk on 03 June, two of Strelkov’s small units were savaged by Mi 24 ground attack choppers. Two days later Strelkov obtained air defense missiles of the shoulder fired variety and began to knock the Uke airframes from the sky. Did they come from Russia? How the heck would I know? Go up there yourself, find some discarded empty tubes and run the serial numbers. Same with the 5 T 64 upgrades Strelkov has and the now two T 72s. Run the numbers and tell me where they came from. I know their origin, the Uke army, just like every BTR, BMP and BMD Strelkov has. How do you capture tanks and other armored vehicles? Simple. When you own the battlefield, no matter how small it may be, after the fight you get the spoils. Poorly trained and motivated tankers and AFV crews are notorious for bailing out of their iron warhorses at the first loud ‘thump’ on the side. They’ll bail rather than risk burning to death in their iron coffins. The trick then is to kill the crew so they don’t simply go back to base and get another one. It takes under wartime conditions a week or less to assemble a tank. It takes six months to field a well trained and motivated tank crew.
As mid June approached, 80% of the entire Uke army was arrayed around Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. The fighting became more and more savage. Grad and Hurricane MLRS joined the bombardments of the cities and towns. Civilian losses were getting horrendous. The West was silent, literally hardly a word said in the MSM. Both cities and surrounding towns and villages were cut off and the critical supply of diesel and benzine was running out.
On 05 July Strelkov evacuated Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, pulling almost all of his fighters in. A very few small volunteer units were left in the cities to discourage any Uke advance to interfere with the evacuation (almost all survived and have returned to the fold). As it turned out a two kilometer long column of trucks, AFV’s, tanks, GAZ jeeps and civilian vehicles left well before dawn, taking every last piece of equipment with them and every bullet and weapon they had. Nothing was left for the Ukes. This was not a spur of the moment run for cover, this was a well planned and executed tactical withdrawal, I would say two weeks minimum in the making. Most of the fighters from Slavyansk and Kramatorsk managed to get their families out with the withdrawal. To the best of my knowledge the entire move was executed with 3 casualties, all civilian at the tail end of the column. My information says they all made it and the wounds were not life threatening.
AAR (After Action Review). For three months Polkovnik Strelkov tied down the vast majority of the Ukeland Army in his small area. His position was untenable from the beginning. He and his men persevered and fought. He commenced a well planned and masterfully executed evacuation of his forces and many civilians in the dark of night under the very noses of a force that vastly outnumbered him and that force was arrayed all around him. The evacuation column arrived to Donetsk in broad daylight. He arrived with 20 men in April and three months later left with an army of reasonably well equipped, very well trained, and blooded veterans after savaging many units of the Uke army. In the time he held the Ukes off Novorossiya was formed and the infrastructure put in place. I would say the good Tovarich Polkovnik performed his task rather well.
Pretty damn impressive. This man is a living legend.
Abandoning Slavyansk to the Nazis and the various other ambulatory offal that makes up the Western offensive may have been a strategically wise decision, but it still smacks of a defeat. They couldn’t hold the city (against overwhelming odds albeit) and now the residents are going to be left to whatever sickness bubbles up from those who are currently entering it.
Wrong summer in Donetsk. The day you stop to talk about us we will die!
http://iouco.tumblr.com/post/91083023314/wrong-summer-in-donetsk-the-day-you-stop-to-talk-about
Very good article and a truly excellent performance on the part of general Strelkov and his men. I am sure president Putin has the entire situation under control and constant review and is doing what he can which will become more apparent with time.
The forces of darkness in Washington aren’t going to win this one.
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/ukrainian-army-general-speaks-his-mind-july-7th-2014-strelkovs-operational-freedom/
“Original: Putnik LiveJournal
Translated from Russian by Gleb Bazov
Preamble: The author of this letter is a Ukrainian army general. He is considered to be one of the most capable ones in Ukrainian armed forces. In general, he is loyal to any government, but he is in shock from what is happening. He has no direct involvement in the punitive operation, which makes him very happy. The text of his letter is quoted below in full, with necessary stylistic amendments and the redaction of names and identifying information, in order to protect him from the Ukrainian gestapo.
With respect to Strelkov’s breakout from Slavyansk, your Kurginyan is spouting absolute nonsense. I am not interested in his hidden motives, and I do not care for his “insider” information, which he may or may not possess; I am simply speaking about that which can be seen with a naked eye.
There is only one negative that comes from the surrender of Slavyansk – any retreat is unpleasant to the side that retreats.
Now, let us talk about why it was necessary to surrender Slavyansk.
Operational Perspective
Following a complete encirclement and blockade, the elimination of a defending force is simply a matter of time. Their supplies, including ammunition, will run dry. Breaking through the blockade [to establish supply lines] would have been an impossible feat for the riffraff forces of DPR [Donetsk People’s Republic].
Slavyansk is a relatively small city, and it is very difficult to defend it from an operational-tactical point of view. Especially when it has been encircled.
The salvation of the most battle-worthy forces of DPR, which were forged together in battle conditions and have accumulated good battle experience and fighting morale, is a far more important matter than the retention of just one settlement, even if has become a Symbol [of the resistance].
The “Slavyansk Impasse” was meant to give DPR time to create functional armed forces. By and large, this time was wasted – the forces that exist are neither united nor coordinated. To draw the situation out any longer would have meant sure demise. The Slavyansk grouping will serve as a good backbone for a quick unification of the existing armed forces, and Strelkov will provide the necessary unity of command, without which an army cannot exist.
Once they set up a complete blockade of Slavyansk, our guys no longer needed to assault the city, nor did they intend to. They planned to take of Donetsk, which had yet to establish a proper defence strategy. “Strelok” and his men would have been left out of the action, wasting their potential and losing their significance.
And now it turns out that, while the larger and better part of the [Ukrainian] forces is devoted to the Slavyansk front, a quick exit gave [Strelkov] a few days’ head start – our guys are unable to quickly react to the changed circumstances, and this provides [Strelkov] with several days to evolve his strategy and tactics.
Bear in mind that [our command] had no idea about [Strelkov’s plans] until the very end. According to our intelligence, “Strelok” planned to sit on the defensive until the bitter end. Some are already starting to pay for this mistake with their stars.
From the standpoint of the growing threat, the exact moment for the breakout was masterfully selected. It was done at exactly the right time – neither too early, nor too late. I have a feeling that, if Strelkov played the foreign exchange market, he would have become a millionaire.”
Read on this Professional compliment from Ukrainian Army General to Colonel Strelkov brilliant timing for retreat from Slovyansk.
Strelkov is a real hero warrior.
Just gotta love it when the facts come to light! Thanks for your report!
Thanks Auslander. You rock!
Dear colleagues,
I have come the results of a careful study by Ukraine’s top scientists. They conclude that the facts on the ground clearly indicate that all the damage to Slavyansk was caused by the defenders’ use of multiple rocket launchers. It appears they didn’t take the strength of the wind into account when aiming them at the Karachun site.
The case is clearly proved beyond all shadow of a doubt. I am 100% convinced.
Hilarious!
Any news about the three bridges blown up? Is the Guardian reporting accurate?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/07/ukraine-donetsk-bridges-blown-up
“Three bridges on key roads leading into the Ukrainian city of Donetsk were blown up on Monday in an apparent attempt to slow down any possible assault by government forces on the rebel-held stronghold.”
Auslander:
Thank you – simple truths need to be continuously repeated. What Col. Strelkov has done in Slavyansk for nearly 3 months will be something studied in War Colleges for centuries to come.
I like to draw parallels in the Russian struggle for independence to American history, and would love to point to the following list:
Newport, RI
New York, NY
Brooklyn, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Savannah, GA
Charleston, SC
Wilmington, NC
Yorktown, VA
This is a list of cities from which Gen. Washington and the Continental Army was chased out or retreated from during the War for Independence, handing them over to their British enemies. One can only imagine what might have been the result in an age of the internet and Twitter and YouTube if this string of losses were put together.
And I think we all know how things ended when Washington lost his last city in Yorktown.
There is another interesting parallel. Washington cut his teeth at war in his 20’s in Pittsburgh in the French and Indian War. Col. Strelkov did so in his 20’s in Transnistria. Gen. Washington assumed a real command in his mid-40’s in the American revolt and turned a handful of rebel militai into an army. Col. Strelkov is doing likewise in his mid-40’s in Novorossiya with the Russian uprising.
May he be similarly victorious, and hopefully in as many months as Washington took years!
Thanks Auslander. You article is informative and inspiring.
God Bless!
What children are saying on the Ukranian Ethnic-cleansing in Donbass
http://professorsblogg.com/2014/07/07/what-children-are-saying-on-the-ukranian-ethnic-cleasing-in-donbass/
What are “light tanks”? Strelkov’s group did not have any tanks till quite recently.
To the best of my knowledge the entire move was executed with 3 casualties, all civilian at the tail end of the column.
There was an armoured group that carried out a distraction attack and was unfortunately almost completely destroyed. But the main column did get away more or less safely.
It is truly amazing how Strelkov’s relocation from Slavyansk to Donetsk was a complete surprise for all – the Ukies, those in Moscow, those in Donetsk – not even mentioning the general public. His sudden appearance in Donetsk threw many groups into a genuine panic. The man made everyone believe he was going to die a futile death in Slavyansk instead of doing the logical thing by getting out and moving to Donetsk – where he should have been in the first place as the Commander-in-Chief of the DPR forces and the Minister of Defence. He has definitely shown that he is someone to be reckoned with not just in the purely military sense.
Even though I haven’t been to Russia for over 20 years, people like Strelkov make me feel very proud. What a spirit, courage, mind and soul. Him and his team are making history; perhaps the fastest history in the history of human kind. Just some months ago they probably didn’t even know how important their presence for the survival of New Russia. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
@ know the truth
“Very good article and a truly excellent performance on the part of general Strelkov and his men.”
Strelkov is not a General – yet, anyway :) He is a retired Colonel.
Some thoughts from afar after staring through a foggy window.
There is a lot afoot at the moment. The militia is consolidating in Donetsk Lughansk and surrounds. They have a fighter aircraft (do they have a competent pilot and maintenance crew?), a grad MRL, fair number of tanks and other artillery, anti aircraft weapons, troops. They have occupied strategic rail link Popasnaya and I would guess are planning an offensive move of some kind as the junta forces regroup and reposition. Doubt they will just sit in Donetsk and wait. Strategic rail bridge blown up – not sure by which side – thinking militia to prevent movement of military equipment.
Junta is continuing to move heavy weapons and troops to the region and Poroshenko has announced his approval for a military plan to liberate the rebellious region. No cease fire in the plans for either side. Militia wanted junta to come parley in Donetsk but they refused.
Ukraine is trying to prevent air and sea access to Crimea (cannot prevent Russia but want to put roadblocks in front of any other nations that might wish to). Threatened to shoot down any Russian aircraft violating airspace near Azov Sea.
NATO and Russia having war games in Black Sea. NATO added an Aegis class missile cruiser, unexpectedly it seems, to their exercises.
Mr. Akhmetov seems distraught about potential damage to Donetsk should the junta attack and has appealed to Kiev not to bomb the city.
Lavrov wants the EU (and the US) to back and insist Kiev begin a new ceasefire.
My take on these things is that Poroshenko will not agree to any cease fire – he cannot or he will be driven from office by Maidan – and the ‘success’ in Slovyansk has made the nationalist forces thirst for a complete military defeat of the militia.
The militia will not agree to a ceasefire that doesn’t protect them fully from Kiev, so they will fight and try to defeat the junta forces if they can, as well as hold their ground.
This situation is not what the outside powers want – any of them, Russia included, nor is it what Akhmetov wants. Events on the ground – probably from the time of the Odessa massacre or perhaps really from the annexation of Krim – have begun to have serious momentum on the ground that is not amenable to an imposed solution short of a decisive military defeat.
No one should assume that nothing is going on in the rest of Ukraine either. While many would still prefer to keep their heads down I am sure many others are choosing sides and beginning to organize. Many eyes watching what is happening. While many in the conflict area have fled to Russia I am sure many others have fled the other direction – either because of family ties and just seeking safety or because of their political preference. The migrants and their experiences will affect the views of the areas they settle – as will the wounded returning from the front. Not to say this will favor one side or the other, just that it will contribute to the process of choosing sides.
The situation has changed – it is no longer civil unrest, it is civil war.
Should the militia continue to gain strength to the point that they cannot be defeated militarily this will pose a very large problem as ‘Novorussia’ probably cannot exist as a political entity without Russian support – overt political support – and I see Russia as very reluctant to provide such. They wanted federalized regional autonomy (an EU approved settlement) and this may no longer be possible to negotiate.
Should the junta succeed in crushing the main resistance there will be continuing sabotage and low level conflict – an unstable repressive ‘peace’ that may flare up into open conflict again at any time – especially as IMF austerity begins to have real meaning for the population.
D–n Straight–Follow the General. He will leave the carping plankton in their puddles.
He started with 20 men and now has a body of vets to build an army. The Nazis will pay!
and the neglected preface to my post: always nice to see Auslander’s informative take on things and if at some point he is so inclined it would be nice to have his perspective on what is happening in Crimea.
If your ‘ragtag’ army can tie down almost all of your opponents’ divisions fro 3 months in a row, you’re on par with Erwin Rommel and Michael Wittmann.
I did choose 2 WWII era Germans on purpose. Germany lost and became ‘the nazis.’ However, these 2 man were brilliant strategists and that’s what I see Strelkov’s actions as well.
To be able to retreat with your army mostly intact, despite being surrounded by the Ukrainian army, well, that has my deepest respect.
MSM’s white noise is a nuisance, but I can switch that off.
Well done and I hope you give those mo-fus a big, bleeding nose when they come knocking.
@Yonatan: I have come the results of a careful study by Ukraine’s top scientists. (…) It appears they didn’t take the strength of the wind into account when aiming them at the Karachun site.
Bwahahahahahaha!!!!! Hilarious. Great stuff! Where did you find this pearl?
Thanks for making me laugh at the end of this long and hard day (I am exhausted). I needed that. And the way you presented it in your post is even better. Man, I have not laughed so much in a long time. I needed it!
Thanks a lot and cheers,
The Saker
oh my god!
I have no words…..
—
Mineworker and self-defense forces fighter of self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic, rushed under tank with bunch of grenades saving his companions in arms.
“There was a fight near Izvarino yesterday; our friends from Krasnodon town took part in the action. One of them was wounded in the leg and his friend Alexander Scryabin died a hero throwing himself with a bunch of grenades under the battle tank,” fellow of the deceased said to reporters. He noted that “Alexander was 54, he worked at the mine Talovskaya as a construction man,” cites Interfax.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_08/LPR-self-defense-forces-fighter-brews-up-tank-at-expense-of-his-life-5763/
.
Strelkov is a very capable commander indeed.
And it seems that is why he is truly respected by his men.
This makes him really dangerous.
He is dangerous not only to Ukrainian army, or the Ukrainian oligarchy and their subservient (pseudo)nationalists, he is also dangerous to the Russian oligarchy.
Strelkov despises the globalized Novorusskyi (pseudo)elite as much as he despises their Ukrainian colleagues.
He once famously wrote that: “(W)ith the powers that be, it is impossible to build a Great Russia, only a russian equivalent of “Great Honduras “.
And Russian globalized kleptocratic oligarchy who parade as ” patriotes” are fully aware of Strelkov’s opinions.
That is why they have sent the old pro-Putin political whore Kurginyan to Donetsk, to slander Strelkov and try to manipulate the public opinion against him.
They have also started to post rants about Strelkov and Novorossia on pro-Putin’s blogs, like the blog of Putin’s friend Bagirov.
Moreover, there is more and more information surfacing, which suggests that Russian border-guards have been ordered to arrest pro-Donbass militants leaders and hand them to the Ukrainian Security Service, and it seems that they’ve already handed at least one of them to the Ukrainians.
As I have warned many times on this very blog, the Kremlin is starting to feel quite uncomfortable with the (pro)Russian militias of Donbass and Lugansk.
The folks in Novorossia are showing the whole world how grassroots militia can challenge the TPTB.
This might become a bad example to some Russians in Russia proper (and who knows maybe some still remember the young Primorsky Krai partisans who took arms against the corrupt local police).
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Partisans
The time of outright betrayal seems close.
That is why Strelkov must watch his back.
I hope he and his men will survive against all odds.
Russia needs them badly…
For Russian readers:
http://ur-2222.livejournal.com/2426819.htmlhtml
http://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/1853555.html
http://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/1853323.html
Any word on increasing protests in W Ukraine by families of new conscripts, of wounded and KIA?
I hope that General Strelkov gets the opportunity to rest for a little while now.
And yes, I believe that he is a general.
Auslander,
How are the kids and mothers doing? Are they still coming to the Church?
Relay the support of this growing crowd on the Vineyard to everyone you speak to in Crimea and Donbass. Tell Donbass, the world is watching. Saker’s megaphone speaks several languages now. Volunteers are pitching in around the world.
Get as much testimony on video and as much documentation of the killing and destruction out to us and the world. Pictures and voices matter.
With God and the heroic militia, a second chance for success against the Godless evil of Kiev is possible. Banderastan must be defeated.
Our prayers and thoughts continue for all your efforts and for the warriors of Novorrosiya.
Incitement to public hysteria is effectively a psyops strategy.
Popular pressure to act aggressively or show machismo when reason should prevail will cause confusion and demoralization. (Imagine fire-fighters having to make hard decisions on how to deal with an inferno while being bombarded with an emotional crowd screaming advice.) Having little hard information or experience of actual physical conditions gives us no basis to pile on emotional pressure. We should trust those out in the field.
KC said…07 July, 2014 23:43
“Is the Guardian reporting accurate?”
Hasn’t been for decades. Literally.
Andrew said…07 July, 2014 23:43
Comparing Strelkov to slave owner white supremacistr Washington, and similarly, comparing the independence sought for Novorussia with the slave holding, white supremacist American usurpation of Native land disguised as a revolution against England, is both insulting to Strelkov and the decent people of Novorossia, and an extension of that American exceptionalism rightly ridiculed and condemned as the lowest of the low supremacist rubbish.
Yonatan said…07 July, 2014 23:39
“Dear colleagues,
“I have come the results of a careful study by Ukraine’s top scientists. They conclude that the facts on the ground clearly indicate that all the damage to Slavyansk was caused by the defenders’ use of multiple rocket launchers. It appears they didn’t take the strength of the wind into account when aiming them at the Karachun site. The case is clearly proved beyond all shadow of a doubt. I am 100% convinced.”
Class! Thanks. :)
olivegreen said…07 July, 2014 23:59
“What are “light tanks”? Strelkov’s group did not have any tanks till quite recently.”
These are APC with a turret mounting a light weapon, such as a 30mm auto-cannon or an auto-mortar, such as a “Nona”. Useless against armor, but give a significant edge against infantry and artillery in steppe warfare.
Dammerung said…07 July, 2014 22:37
You are embarrassing Yahveh, find a sword and fall on it (or a Walmart steak knife or whatever).
When the US first sent in large numbers of ground troops in 1964 the Vietcong were forced to retreat from large tracts of land (especially the productive farm land in Mekong delta) to more practical defensive positions in the jungles and mountains. Except for US army propagandists I do not recall any of the leftist supporters crying that the Vietcong were therefore defeated or betraying the peasants left behind. Most of those who followed that war closely, realized that that is the nature guerrilla war. Mao’s defeat after the three campaigns that led to the Long March must have been traumatic to say the least, but they managed to extract over 100.000 men and their best commanders.
So strategic retreats are not necessarily bad even if they might not feel so good at the time.
this is an interesting read ..
“Soldier/citizen protests against war in eastern Ukraine as democratic freedoms under deepening attack by Kyiv regime”
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/roger-annis/2014/07/soldiercitizen-protests-against-war-eastern-ukraine-democratic-fr
(ie. while the US Regime, for its own global empire purposes, is desperate to create mayhem in Novorossya, the rest of Ukraine is falling into chaos and ruin. The longer this goes on, the more intense will be the resistance to the Ukraine Junta from the entire body of Ukraine.)
Met a woman from Odessa (here in America) recently. Asked how things there are. She said that almost everyone there was against the junta. But it appears that many are afraid to speak up (understandable). Perhaps the fact that the Ukies are now tied up in the east could give local resistance some confidence.
Interesting historical parallel: the Greek independence movement started in 1814 in… Odessa. Will the city come to the fore once again, two centuries later?
Yonatan:
On a more serious note the exact same claim of self-inflicted shelling was claimed in Baghdad during the American invasion – i.e. all damage to civilian structures was caused by Iraqi forces.
The pessimist:
Here is what is happening in Crimea, courtesy of the Kyivpost.
It seems “no-one” is coming to the beach this summer. See picture at enclosed link of deserted beach.
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/fyodr-lukyanov-russia-must-regain-crimeas-lost-momentum-355034.html
We can be quite sure of this since subhumans don’t count as people, Russians, Crimeans, and Novorossiyans are subhumans per Yats and Porcochoco, and No True Ukrainian would dare to go to Crimea this summer. Ergo, whatever you are seeing in this photo is not PEOPLE at the beach.
The Ministry of Truth appreciates your efforts to come to a correct understanding of the situation.
@Daruma Doll:Putin’s friend Bagirov.
Bagirov is a sorry piece of shit. What is the evidence of him being a *friend* of Putin?
Cheers,
The Saker
I should have written “Putin’s confidant” instead of “Putin’s friend”.
Friend is too personal, while a confidant (doverennoe litso) is how Bagirov defines himself in the link below (his rant about Strelkov that’s gone viral):
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/m_kalashnikov/19021490/702693/702693_original.png
Bagirov is indeed listed among Putin’s confidants:
http://xn--80adffaavxqag0a8f2c.xn--p1ai/moskva/person/eduard-bagirov-ismailovich
Besides, there is also Kurginyan, who organized the rallies of Putin’s supporters during the last presidential elections and who went to Donetsk to slander Strelkov:
Губарев приехал доставить саботажника Кургиняна в…: http://youtu.be/RutxeU4CL94
http://fakty.ua/184445-prokremlevskij-polittehnolog-kurginyan-akter-girkin-samyj-fantasticheskij-podlec-v-istorii-chelovechestva
Kurginyan is also close to Putin’s circle.
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvkop.eu%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2Fkurginyan-putin.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvkop.eu%2Fpridvornye-kommunisty&h=338&w=563&tbnid=WdMB668OcE6GeM%3A&zoom=1&docid=VlSyGaZl1-6UxM&ei=qdi7U5rVF5KlyATci4CoCQ&tbm=isch&client=ms-android-google&ved=0CB4QMygCMAI&iact=rc&uact=3&page=1&start=0&ndsp=6
While he’s also lobbying for Israel.
Россия Обязана поддерживать Израиль! Ясно и абсол…: http://youtu.be/GtB_T3A9nQM
More about Kurginyan on Lurkmore.to (might offend some readers).
http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9A%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%BD
The pessimist:
Should the militia continue to gain strength to the point that they cannot be defeated militarily this will pose a very large problem as ‘Novorussia’ probably cannot exist as a political entity without Russian support – overt political support – and I see Russia as very reluctant to provide such. They wanted federalized regional autonomy (an EU approved settlement) and this may no longer be possible to negotiate.
There is an obvious solution to this conundrum. The NAF must grow in strength until it can liberate Kiev. It can then create new federalized state in place of Ukraine, accepting whatever regions within it that it should chose and which would be willing, i.e. most likely not including Galicia.
This would satisfy desired outcomes on all sides other than Right Sector and the Coup Government.
The army is not the problem at the moment. The people left behind to suffer at the hands of deranged Ukie weirdo Nazism should never be off anyone’s mind. .The army left because it was time to leave. They will return when its time to come back – this is what armies do. This kind of war can grind on decades without political settlement. THAT is what those not on the ground and in uniform in Novorossiya should be concerned with. WHAT is this going to be about ? It cant be about nationalism. These people cant be suffering and dying just for revenge and to hand a loot pile over to some oligarchs when its all over – that might as well be for nothing. What is the alternative to a criminal system of looting and robbing the working class, those who are, as always, doing the suffering the fighting and the dying -in other words ALL THE WORK…What are the working class going to get from defeating imperialists and their nationalist Ukrainian goons and conscripts? If the answer is more of the same – nothing, then how can we ask them to go on suffering ? The answer has to be real democracy and their just share of wealth – genuine political independence for the working class.
@ Andrew @ 23:43
You left Boston off that list
How many years will it take to drive these motherfuckers back to Lvov? And how many international borders will be crossed with the blood seeds of this conflict? This is way beyond Russia, the US, the EU, Putin, whatever.
All I can say is thank you to Novorossia self-defense for standing up for what is right. You have changed my life for the better.
(American)
Interesting move here;
South Front @southfronteng
LPR militia took control of the city Popasnaya.
And an audio discussing Sun Tzu and the US Civil War.
http://tinyurl.com/lowp66w
Minor historical point, re Auslander’ “… if Lee had listened to Longstreet and gone around the Yankee army gathering at Gettysburg he could have fought on ground of his choosing …” If he had, he would have been met by the Union 5th Corps, as indeed Longstreet was at Little Round Top, with the 6th Corps coming up behind, together equal in size to Longstreet’s whole force. The real problem was that Sickles advanced the Union 3rd Corps against orders to the Peach Orchard, a salient a mile outside the Union line, and was outflanked and driven away by Longstreet, almost leading to disaster.
Well Andrew, for that to happen (march all the way to Kiev) there would have to be a sea change in opinion of a good percentage of the population in the rest of the country from blaming Russia to blaming Kiev. This might well happen, but not overnight for sure. I am guessing that something like the defection of a significant portion of the regular armed forces would also be required – also not out of the realm of possibility but I don’t see it happening in the near term. And then there would be the problem of people in the west of the country who would fight bitterly against such an occurrence, and finally the problem of the oligarchs, some of whom would surely try to co-opt the political leadership. In a French Revolution scenario the country likely would devolve into an impoverished bickering mess. Effective political leadership is required – where would it come from?
I don’t have answers, just a lot of questions, but I don’t see any lull in the fighting without some well defined stalemate or one party claiming victory at this point.
Someone said earlier that the best hope was for a solution to arise without victory for either side – so effective and real compromise could happen, however I don’t see Kiev allowing that – they wouldn’t survive it.
Anyway, its a long march to Kiev, a trail of sorrows even should it be successful eventually.
Damn the meddlers who started this. Damn them to hell!
…..
Upon reflection perhaps one take home is that the kind of festering identity crisis that Ukraine was suffering from is bound to lead to what we see without strong and effective political leadership that addresses the corruption and general impoverishment that was the root cause of the discontent for average people.
These types of articles are a profoundly naive attempt to spin the real facts. The truth is vastly different.
The West is playing the Syria/Libya game in Ukraine. The West’s proxy armies are effectively endless, and once established would take a full-on, first world military assault to eliminate.
The Syrian government is vastly more powerful than the defenders of Novorussia, yet can do no more than watch as the nation is slowly and inevitably eaten alive by the forces of the West. For ever rat Syria exterminates, two takes his place. And the two new ones are always better armed than the earlier one.
A graph showing ACTUAL Kiev military power in Novorussia across time would sicken all of you. While the defence forces also grow, of course, they are still but a rag-tag bunch of enthusiastic amateurs- highly motivated but no match for what the West is using against them.
As Kiev grows bolder, and notices that no Kiev atrocity gets attention in the West, the neo-Nazis understand that out-and-out terror is the best weapon to use against those large civilian bodies they need to ‘disappear’. And, of course, when the defence forces start to use ‘terror’ tactics against the occupying Nazis, the Nazis will use this as an excuse to exterminate the senior figures amongst the civilian population.
Anyone who chooses to live in the USA will, no matter how they try, have a very foolish and naive view of how the West actually operates. Anyone who chooses to live in the USA buys, to some degree, the idea of America as “the land of the free”. The mother of all psy-ops.
America is actually the land crafted by Britain to provide the ‘fist’ of the West- the global military power that when push-comes-to-shove, will operate without mercy to see the aims of the rulers of the West realised.
Only by facing this reality, and acting “full strength” when the occasion arises, can Russia and China hope to hold back the ambitions of the monsters. Syria lies within the ancient lands of the West, and it would have been almost unthinkable for Russia to have attacked the terrorist recruitment centres in Turkey and Jordan – attacks that would have stopped the campaign against Syria dead in its tracks if they had happened at the beginning.
Ukraine is different in that it is land that lies in Russia’s historic sphere of influence. Putin actually had the ‘right’ to intervene, and the political fall-out over a quick clean intervention that ended the violence, and allowed Ukraine to divide into several new nations, would have been as minimal and short-lived as possible.
Sadly, team Tony Blair ensured a legion of siren voices that were/are constantly explaining to Putin all the ‘advantages’ Russia gets by not directly intervening. And the ‘carrot’ is a continued ‘partnership’ with the EU (a fairy-tale ‘sold’ mostly by Blair’s German team members).
If Putin thinks that the growing comparison of him with with Adolf Hitler depicted across the entire zionist controlled mainstream press, is something ‘harmless’, he is insane. The leaders of Iraq, Libya and Syria were given the exact same treatment.
Excellent coverage
Syria has put up one hell of a fight….
But can they last?
The venetian banker side will use everything to
succeed….no moral compass in sight
Being proactive against an aggressor makes being
the victim less painfull
and who knows…sometimes you get lucky and back the
crazy off for years…even cause re direction
bottom line..
Until saudi and qatar oil and nat gas sites are burning
the ME is going the bankers way.
Nato will keep sending the evil into their collabo city of
Kiev and party on
Russians who gave all to stop the trash must be rolling
in their graves
Saker posted in comments:
Daruma Doll:Putin’s friend Bagirov.
Bagirov is a sorry piece of shit. What is the evidence of him being a *friend* of Putin?
I hate to attribute motives to unknown commentators but this one smells to high heaven as a “Concern Troll” that is hoping to instigate a division between the Russian nation and those Donbas rebels who are so valiantly resisting western aggression.
Instead of categorizing me, try to read the links that I’ve provided, and then make an attempt to connect the dots…
Be well…
BOT TAK:
Comparing Strelkov to slave owner white supremacistr Washington, and similarly, comparing the independence sought for Novorussia with the slave holding, white supremacist American usurpation of Native land disguised as a revolution against England, is both insulting to Strelkov and the decent people of Novorossia, and an extension of that American exceptionalism rightly ridiculed and condemned as the lowest of the low supremacist rubbish.
I don’t know why you must be confrontational, but I know you fully understand the point I was illustrating, yet you choose to respond like this. You know this will just make me respond and demolish your statement. Why bother?
To your comments. Gen. Washington was a slave owner, and he freed his slaves voluntarily. Slavery was a relatively minor institution in the US prior to the invention of the cotton gin after Independence. Part of the rebellion’s aim was restricting slavery, which American leaders stated was incompatible with the ideals of their rebellion. It was the British who vetoed American bills which would abolish the trans-atlantic slave trade into the colonies, and it was the British who forced the free colony of Georgia to become a slave colony. I don’t see the relevance of this to the tactical history of Washington as commander or the progress (or lack thereof) of the rebellion before final victory, which was my point.
Regarding “Native Land”, the idea of usurpment rests on the notion that Indians didn’t believe in property, and that a property title system and the purchase of land in the America’s somehow violated this pristene communist-like condition. In fact, the Indians went to war over land frequently, and jealously guarded the borders of what they viewed as belonging to their tribe as communal property in trust possession of their chief. They voluntarily sold great quantities of land to the Americans in exchange for a variety of considerations, and they enforce those considerations in court to this day. Other land was simply abandoned or fallow when the first Americans arrived, as Indians suffered from plague conditions in the early 1600’s. There is a great deal of scholarly literature on this topic if you are interested in it. I know for certain that the areas I live in and my ancestors lived in were purchased in a fair manner for reasonable consideration without military force and that Indians still live among us to this day in the east – I work with one (she is our receptionist), and I am also part Indian myself (specifically one great-great-grandparent who was Seminole).
(part 1 of 1)
BOT TAK:
(part 2 of 2)
Most surprising is that you compare this historic situation to Novorossiya or even Russia itself as if it were somehow vastly different. On the contrary, Novorossiya was seized by military force by the Russians from the Tatars, as was Siberia during the same time period as the settling of America. Russian immigrants and foreigners poured into the new lands, drove off the remaining Tatars and Mongols and Turks and reduced their lands to small remnants of their former possession, and settled the land and civilized it. Russians are hardly native to the area of Donbass or Crimea (or the Caucusus or Siberia), seeing that they originated in the great swath of land from Galicia through the Pripet Marshes and up to Arkhangelsk and not in Donetsk and Irkutsk and Vladivostok. This is all true, but it should hardly be used as a reason to question the real moral right of Russians to live where they do today, which is what you effectively just did to Americans in your comment, implying we are all theives. That is the sort of thing I would expect from Maidanites, who have certainly said as much regarding the Crimean Tatars and the right of Russians to live in Crimea.
Lastly, the Russian Empire had a vicious slave institution, whitewashed under the term serfdom, for just as long as America had slavery, abolishing it only in 1861. A great deal of Ukrainian national-consciousness came as a reaction to “serfdom” among the Cossack (Kazak = freeman) society of slaves escaping their Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, German, and Turkish masters and settling in the bend of the Dniepr, along the Don and Donets, in the Kuban, and along the Terek. Surely you don’t argue somehow that these historical truths taint the Russian Empire or believers in Russian tradition today (which includes me, an American). But you just did to all Americans by claiming we are morally tainted by what a small minority did in the past. By your claims no country would have a moral right to any pride other than de-novo creations like Ukraine or Estonia too young to have any significant national sins (although Ukraine the state is working very hard on making up for that innocence in Donbass, working on the historical behavior of its people in Volyn and Galicia in WWII).
He has done a good job, though one can have serious doubts about how the rest of Novorossiya has gotten its act together during the last couple of months. With his skills and his army of actual soldiers, one can hope for some successes.
Now, though, comes the question of Quo Vadis? Can they cut off the Kiev forces near the border? Maybe they need to use Akhmetov’s important buildings – Kiev won’t bomb those.
BOT TAK:
Please see here regarding other Novorossiyan supporters comparing Washington to Novorossiyans.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Truth_Seeker_11/status/486282612894617600/photos
Thank you Auslander. I have felt good about Strelkov and have never doubted him. That his soldiers trust and admire him speaks to me all that need be said.
I’ve said before that I believe history has given the task to Donbass to go to Kiev and throw down the tyrant.
I suppose it’s possible that the Donbass People’s Army could choose to take back all of Ukraine and pacify it, destroying a generation of Nazis along the way. But I also believe that Novorussya (having grown to include Odessa and other regions) can very well be its own self-sufficient country, given the lucky breaks and international friends that all such republics need.
I will also say that I believe Putin and Strelkov are both men of exceptional virtue – and I use the word in the sense that Sun-Tsu used it, beginning his Art of War by saying that the sovereign had first to be virtuous (i.e. for all the rest of the general’s strategy to work).
So if there is potential disagreement between the two men in the future (which I know nothing about), I believe on character alone they will agree to strive together for the best outcome for all Russians (and the world).
Finally, regarding Slavyansk – as Strelkov himself said, and I believe, the horror that has come to Slavyansk was coming anyway, would always have appeared eventually.
The horror has been coming to all of the east, to all of Ukraine. There has never been any appeasing it, only killing it.
There can be no doubt that a classified US presidential finding exists specifying regime change for Russia. Novorussia will be declared an international terrorist group as the guerilla war progresses. The full weight of US military intelligence has already been brought to bear, but not yet acted upon. In the US and the EU, anyone who supports, discusses, communicates vis-a-vis Novorussia will be surveilled, repressed and sometimes prosecuted. This will be an easy and cheap tactic for the US to use to further attack Russia and to sap international support for the resistance.
It’s not for nothing that Brennan showed up in Kiev and they rolled out the “Anti-Terrorist Operation” the next day.
Russia is buying time but time is running out.
There’s one thing I disagree with; the notion to kill crews.
I do not disagree with the length it takes to train them, but as the North Vietnamese figured out it would even be more of a strain and a burden on societies if the wo/men come back home not in ‘horizontal, aluminum transport tubes – hatts’, but severely wounded [either physically,mentally or both].
This is not a call for heinous crimes to be committed against one side or another, it’s a battle strategy.
Saker,
You might want to read and comment on the article by Colonel Cassad that has gotten a bit of notoriety. It is about the players around Novorossiya and how some of them wanted Strelkov out of the picture. They would not be happy with him establishing an actual fighting force from Donetsk.
Not saying he is correct; but one can certainly imagine that Strelkov is an inconvenient person for a lot of people on both sides of the border.
SAKER : “Poorly trained and motivated tankers and AFV crews are notorious for bailing out of their iron warhorses at the first loud ‘thump’ on the side. They’ll bail rather than risk burning to death in their iron coffins. The trick then is to kill the crew so they don’t simply go back to base and get another one. It takes under wartime conditions a week or less to assemble a tank. It takes six months to field a well trained and motivated tank crew.”
Why not let them live, go back to base and deliver you another tank..after awhile this behavior is encouraged and demoralized conscripts know they can trade much needed weapons and systems for their lives – until their own side kills them
@durmadoll
So you are saying that Strelkov and his merry men are becoming an embarrassment to the Russian elite and that Russia may even betray the Donbass freedom fighters?for example detaining them at the border?
That is pretty grim if true.
Some news
Tuesday, July 8
03:15 GMT:
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko confirmed the plan to “liberate” the eastern cities of Lugansk and Donetsk, currently under the control of self-defense forces, UNIAN news agency cited Deputy Secretary of the National Security Council Mikhail Koval as saying.
02:09 GMT:
US President Barack Obama and his French counterpart Francois Hollande agreed that Europe should adopt further costly sanctions against Russia if Moscow does not introduce measures to de-escalate tensions in eastern Ukraine, the White House said in a statement. The two leaders said Russia must stop its “destabilizing activities,” according to the statement.
Strelkov and his men are the archetypal “Red-Browns” (or “Brown-Reds”).
They hate the global oligarchy and fight against its Ukrainian franchise.
And the global oligarchy will most probably return the favor and erase Strelkov and his men from the ” current upload of the matrix”.
My opinion is, the Russian franchise of the global oligarchy will sooner or later join hands with its Ukrainian counterpart to solve the Novorossia problem.
I call it “class-solidarity” of the 1-%-ers.
Strelkov and others will be sacrificed for higher (profit) good…
On 08 July, 2014 02:02, VINEYARDSAKER wrote
@Daruma Doll:Putin’s friend Bagirov.
Bagirov is a sorry piece of shit. What is the evidence of him being a *friend* of Putin?
The way I understand it, his argument can be summarised as follows:
Daruma Doll considers himself an expert.
Therefore, whatever Daruma Doll writes has got to be true.
Also known as appeal to authority
The “evidence” is the infallibility of the self-proclaimed expert. You have to be an authoritarian to understand this line of thinking, I’m afraid ;-)
B.
Where did I write that I was an expert ?
And an “expert in Bagirov” of all things?
Dude, you distort my comments…
Are you a troll?
;-)
@ Andrew
If you want to know what the American Empire is really about, read David Stannard’s book American Holocaust, in which he exposes the true moral and political foundation of the United States and other colonizer nations spawned by the European invasion of the so-called New World: one of the greatest genocides in human history.
American Holocaust: The Conquest of the New World
http://www.amazon.com/American-Holocaust-The-Conquest-World/dp/0195085574#
Most patriotic Americans are deeply deluded and try to sanitize the murderous basis of their precious American Empire…sorry… I mean Land of the Free.
These American apologists specialize in patriotic rationalizations and faux legalism to justify America’s theft and CURRENT OCCUPATION of Native Indian and Hawaiian lands.
Republic of Lakota
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/
Hawaiian Kingdom Independence Blog
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/
At its core, however, the United States of America is an empire founded and based upon ethnic cleansing, expansionism, colonial aggression, land theft, and the “minor” little institution of chattel slavery.
Even more shameless, the United States conceals its real national character behind Hollywood-style lies that America represents “freedom and democracy”!
But the abolitionist Frederick Douglass best captured the true soul of America when he stated that: “For revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival.”
“The Meaning of July Fourth for the Negro”
http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/meaning-july-fourth-negro
What is July 4th to US imperialism? What is it to the Oppressed?
http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/what-july-4th%C2%A0-us-imperialism-what-it-oppressed
Andrew,
Miccosukee or Muskogean Seminole blood?
I once did a documentary for ABC on the Seminoles.
Connecting the dots?
Michael Hudson: The basic principle to bear in mind is that finance today is war by non-military means. The aim of getting a country in debt is to obtain its economic surplus, ending up with its property. The main property to obtain is that which can produce exports and generate foreign exchange. For Ukraine, this means mainly the Eastern manufacturing and mining companies, which presently are held in the hands of the oligarchs. For foreign investors, the problem is how to transfer these assets and their revenue into foreign hands – in an economy whose international payments are in chronic deficit as a result of the failed post-1991 restructuring. That is where the IMF comes in. – Full article @ RT
Baboo says
So what if Strelkov is equal opportunity anti-oligarchic and is grounds for a possible rift between Novorussiya and Moscow. All the better. Then Foggy Bottom will begin supporting NPR too! But what if the alleged rift is not a rift but somebody wants to plant that idea. Man this politics shit is complicated. Should have studied brain surgery instead. ;)
Glad to see balance and reason taking hold after the emotional reaction to the retreat.
I suppose it is a symptom of the 24/7 news age and a generation now grown up watching US show wars, synchronised and choreographed to the beat of the networks commercial breaks, where the action is short lived and furious.
Real war is a very different beast and moves back and forth to a very different beast.
You also need to remember who the real enemy is, as true victory is the one which defeats him and not simply the cannon fodder, thrown into the front line.
The west ukie army was in dissarray
the soldiers saw foreign mercs and had pause about the
direction Kiev was demanding
the turn out to resist on the east was shit
basically…a few cells made a sit around and watch defence
look capable
Now the Ukie west army has cohesion and neanderthal
minds in military outfits to be about burning the trapped
outta their caves
Before Russian army faced the Citadel juggernaut at Kursk
women pilots in biplanes bombed the german ammo depots
and collection areas.
The women would fly all night…extreme danger…extreme
sacrifice.
Yes…Russia had preppared defence lines and positioned armor
for the enevitable
Yet before they faced the hammer…they went at the germans to hurt them where it mattered….in the logistic
Until the east stands up and goes after the Kiev nazi
they will simply be victim….over and over…no matter how
brave
Interesting article to be incorporated into our various musing:
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing.html
America had outside help to beat the British. Putin needs to understand that Donbas is the modern equivalent of the Spanish Civil War. If you don’t stop the NWO now, they will run the table.
America is sitting on an immigration time bomb and is de factor in another recession. The sanctions that Putin is afraid of are guaranteed. He needs to get engaged and follow an escalatory program, no a deescalatory program that just gets more people killed for nothing.
VineyardSaker 01:03
I’m glad to help you out. It is a slight contribution in recognition of the work you and your team do on this blog. The high quality of the contributors is worthwhile too.
The image is allegedly a screen shot from a program on the Ukrainian TV station TSN.
@Daruma Doll’s post [08 July, 2014 01:10] is my single biggest fear [and everyone else’s I guess ?].
@VINEYARDSAKER [08 July, 2014 02:02] said: “Bagirov is a sorry piece of shit. What is the evidence of him being a *friend* of Putin?“
So I start to feel better. I’ve never heard of Bagirov before and search for “is bagirov a friend of putin” and [quickly] find [Sep 8th 2013, 12:58 PM]:
http://www.discussionworldforum.com/forum/showpost.php?s=68035b71661f105784fefa5c5e2ba202&p=81630&postcount=12
“Bagirov and Tesak, are friends of the Kremlin, Bagirov being one of Putin’s “trusted persons” and Tesak, his main fighter against all perversion“
Is a friend of the Kremlin and one of Putin’s “trusted persons” different to being a friend of Putin ?
My find is only one – i’d appreciate further [negative friend] evidence.
Other:
Unfortunately I currently find it very difficult to argue against @Anonymous at 08 July, 2014 03:24: “For ever[y] rat Syria exterminates, two takes his place.
And the two new ones are always better armed than the earlier one.“
@Andrew part 1 & 2 [08 July, 2014 03:42] thanks for pointing out that Nationalism is just another divisive instrument. Let’s hope mankind can work free
of those shackles in the centuries to come.
The Live Journal blogging system has a live image feed. This blogging system is widely used by Russian and Ukrainians, both Fascist and anti-Fascist, covering the Ukraine situation. A lot of the images are NSFW. These I studiously ignore (honest, not even a peek). I keep an eye out for an interesting stuff, e.g. outrageous Ukie propaganda) and follow up.
Comment on Daniel Rich, 08 July, 2014 04:35 regarding killing crew or wounding them.
From a cynical viewpoint, all highly trained specialists are better killed than wounded. The argument of wounded taking more resources from the enemy is on the surface correct, but at the same time there is no guarantee they can not heal and brought back into service. Unless you start chopping off limbs to ensure they dont offcourse. Which I sincerely would discourage.
The fact is that the enemy is already swamped with wounded regular troops. So a few specialists (tanker, spotter, artillerist, pilot, mechanic etc)more or less doesnt really matter.
It is much much worse to loose them as KIA or POW as it takes a lot of time to train new personell. On top of that comes the psychological side of the losses in themselves on the population and army.
From a more humane perspective, wounded would be better. But we are talking about a David vs Goliath fight here in terms of relative strenght of numbers. So from a strategical viewpoint, KIA/POW would be better for David.
I believe Strelkov is a very important man for Novorossiya that they need to protect. I would not be surprised if the PUkes tries something nasty. They’ve already tried a few assassinations.
As for “ragtag” militia it would seem they have quite a few experienced soldiers on their side. That is really important for morale and effectiveness.
As for the politics concerning Russia. I think they are just building momentum for a stronger reaction towards the Kiev juna. Russia is trying to counter the US attempts to drive EU/Russia apart. I would be incredibly surprised if Russia as actively sabotaging Novorossia’s attempt of independence. An independent Novorossia would also create a “buffer state” towards Crimea.
Norwegian Bob
Dear Saker
Beware of this guy Daruma Doll
I think his task is to saw
disinformation
Spaniard
Are you suggesting that Saker should use some good old censorship against me?
I did not expect this kind of Spanish Inquisition.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI
What about burning me at a stake?
Be well amigo… ;-)
Hi Saker,
Please post this interview with an American photographer in Kramatorsk!
http://veragraziadei.wordpress.com/2014/07/05/i-interview-an-american-photographer-in-kramatorsk-about-life-under-bombs-the-civilians-are-dying-here-and-something-needs-to-happen-to-stop-it/
Best Regards,
Cortes said…
Any word on increasing protests in W Ukraine by families of new conscripts, of wounded and KIA?
=====================
What are you talking about? Any family that dares protest will be swiftly vandalized or worse by the men in masks.
Read the second story in this page, titled: “A Conversation with Old Friends from Kiev” to see how life is like under the rule of masked men:
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/three-stories-from-the-front-july-5-6-2014/
Andrew said:
There is an obvious solution to this conundrum. The NAF must grow in strength until it can liberate Kiev. It can then create new federalized state in place of Ukraine, accepting whatever regions within it that it should chose and which would be willing, i.e. most likely not including Galicia.
===============
In order for the NAF to grow it needs sustained support from Russia. It does look more and more like whatever support is given will be from voluntary efforts, as it appears increasingly more obvious that the Russian establishment is not willing to foster what they perceive as a serious threat to the status quo. The rebels have started to talk about abolishing oligarchy in their territory and instituting direct democracy. You can bet the Russian origarcs don’t like this any more than the Ukrainian oligarcs.
So, the question is, can the movement grow without covert aid from the Kremlin? Can it survive relying only on popular support?
Note also that the propaganda is relentless to present the ukie army as liberators of a terrorized population, with endlessly repeated images of soldiers distributing loaves of bread and a drink of water from a canteen to elderly women
Yonatan, Saker,
Yep, just yesterday, Ukie TV was stating the liberation of Slavyansk was a classic military operation that will be studied by all the armies in Europe. And they’ll write a book about it too.
No doubt all loyal Banderastan mama’s will buy it for their children, along with a big box of blue and yellow crayons!
Anonymous said:
The West is playing the Syria/Libya game in Ukraine. The West’s proxy armies are effectively endless, and once established would take a full-on, first world military assault to eliminate.
================
True. Those proxy armies are endless because the money supply to keep them, the US Treasury, is effectively endless. If native fighters ever come to be in short supply, the supply of foreign fighters is also virtually endless. Ukraine is for sale, or rather for grabs, and the US wants it and is ready to finance the grabbing operation. That’s bad news for Ukraine. I hope I am wrong.
The only way to back them off is to act outside the box and
shock the gallery
Europe would shit themself if the saudi and qatar
oil and natgas facilities were burning
Shipping ins would go thru the roof
Israel would shit….if holy hell saudi can buy it
so can we type thing.
Bankers would be kicking chairs as their control went
180
Shia would be emboldened…..maybe even aggressive
take sunni land and make it Shia….
Bankers kick more chairs
Until bankers kick chairs accross the room
we are loosing and being the victims they
calculate we will be.
By the way, I forgot to say, Auslander, thanks for the brilliant article summarizing the history of Strelkov’s work.
I came across a LiveJournal blog entry that had infographics representing the the losses of both sides over two months.I haven’t got the link to hand but I will post it later. In summary, there was one graphic for the losses of Stelekov and his men, and three for the Ukies. The number of troops lost on the Ukie side was an order of magnitude higher than on Strelkov’s side, let alone the vast difference in loss of material. Those men held down and inflicted severe losses on a whole army, and managed to escape largely intact from a trap hoped for by the Ukies.
….Is a friend of the Kremlin and one of Putin’s “trusted persons” different to being a friend of Putin ?……
Are we at that who is the friend of Putin?
Is it prohibited to be a friend of Putin on behalf of NATO shit?
I am friend of Putin and 80% of people who support Putin in Russia and all freedom loving people all over the world.
Saker, perhaps it would be good – at least for the sake of objectivity – to offer your readers some of the points made by those who do not engage in Strelkov hero worship?
They are, in short:
1) If Strelkov justified his stay in Slavyansk (which involved depopulating it of over 70% of its inhabitants in one way or another) by claiming that it will be the place of the decisive stand against the Ukes, why did he abandon it without making such a stand?
2)Strelkov publicly claimed he will defend Slavyansk, then abandoned it. Yet Strelkov worshippers have no problem with that. They do, however, have a problem with Putin, who has “abandoned” the South-East, even though he never specifically stated that he would defend it.
3) Strelkov did not just abandon Slavyansk, he also abandoned Kramatorsk and effectively opened the way for Ukes to move towards Donetsk without any serious obstacles in their way.
4) The story of Strelkov’s breakout is very muddled. It was at first claimed that he punched through the Uke ring around Slavyansk with his armor. It then, however, became apparent that he used the armor to create a diversion (effectively sacrificing it) while his main force moved in a different direction. If that is the case, how did the main force punch through the Uke ring and how could it have possibly moved the entire distance from Slavyansk to Donetsk without a single shot being fired at it?
5) If his main force was able to move all the way to Donetsk unmolested while his diversionary force was merrily burning away elsewhere, it would suggest that Slavyansk was never fully encircled, which is directly contradicting what Strelkov has been claiming for at least a month.
Personal note: it actually gets better. This is a DIRECT quote from Strelkov:
“Успешному прорыву из закрывающегося кольца способствовала отвлекающая атака на стеле Славянск нашей бронегруппой. Большая часть этой бронегруппы погибла”.
“Our successful breakout from the CLOSING (not tightening, mind you) ring (around Slavyansk) was assisted by a diversionary attack on Slavyansk stellae(?) carried out by our armoured group. The greater part of that group perished”.
Strelkov himself states that the ring around Slavyansk was not yet formed. No comment.
6) If Strelkov abandoned Slavyansk out of concern for its inhabitants, why did he wait until there were only 30K (out of pre-war 100+K) left?
It would also be good to provide your readers (again, for the sake of objectivity) with the points Kurginyan made. They can be found here:
http://eot.su/node/17388
Now couple of points from me.
There is a very widespread idea that Strelkov was holding off the best and the most of what the Uke army has at its disposal. That is, by and large, untrue. If anything, part of the comment from your reader at 20:44 confirms it – “once they (i.e. Ukes) set up a complete blockade of Slavyansk, our guys no longer needed to assault the city, nor did they intend to.” The majority of the forces Strelkov claimed he’s holding off were actually withdrawn from the area and used for a push to seal the Russo-Ukrainian border. They have suffered major losses there – far greater than those incurred around Slavyansk. There is an ongoing battle around Saur-Mogila, for example, where just recently the Uke “Azov” battalion was nearly entirely wiped out.
There IS military planning there at work that is not Strelkov’s, and there ARE battleworthy units there which aren’t his, either.
Moreover, the Lugansk militia has also been successful in containing a Uke push to take control of the border crossings. Strelkov does not control them.
And, for dessert, this is what the Slavyansk inhabitants are saying now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyuNj49bZAE&feature=player_embedded
While the one in white blouse may as well be a “plant”, the background commenters are clearly not. Enjoy.
BOPOH
Well, seems that Motorola is alive and well and has escaped Slaviansk.