This morning a reader brought to my attention a very interesting post by Vladimir Suchan entitled “The Minsk “Ceasefire” Protocol and Russian Diplomacy’s Masterful “Sabotage” which I recommend that you read in its entirety. Suchan quotes a short note of mine where I said the following:
“Knowing the degree to which Russian diplomats are normally maniacally fastidious and pedantic with words, I can only conclude that they have deliberately sabotaged this agreement and that it’s sole use what to deflate the bellicose mood of the NATO summit.”
What is missing is the preceding and following stance. The full section reads like this:
What is certain is that this documents is imprecise, nebulous, ambiguous and otherwise vague to such a degree that I would argue that it is basically impossible to implement. Knowing the degree to which Russian diplomats are normally maniacally fastidious and pedantic with words, I can only conclude that they have deliberately sabotaged this agreement and that it’s sole use what to deflate the bellicose mood of the NATO summit. But as a basis for a real ceasefire it is useless, nevermind a real negotiation for a final status agreement or peace treaty.
Same difference? Let’s see.
POLITICAL SITUATION:
At this point, I am going to have to post a lengthy quote of Suchan’s analysis, I apologize for that in advance, but it is crucial to follow his logical flow: (crucial parts bolded out be me – the Saker)
In other words, the implementation of Putin’s 7-point initiative was written so poorly and badly that Saker concluded not only that it must have been written by Russian diplomats, but that Russian diplomats must have composed the Minsk Protocol so terribly on purpose. For how could someone comparatively intelligent and reasonably well educated produce something so horrible and awful? One does not make something so bad by mistake. One has to be a master to be able to do that. And why would Russian diplomats deliberately sabotage the document and made it so poor and thus making themselves appear as bad as the document they made? According to Saker, this was not because they had any intention to sabotage Novorossiya or its struggle, but because they wanted to sabotage “the bellicose mood” of NATO by appeasing NATO and its bellicosity with the sabotage of the ceasefire agreement. And why exactly would NATO, receiving such awful provisions for Novorossiya, find its “bellicose mood deflated”? Because of being in awe of the horrible work of the Russian diplomats? Or just being stunned by it? Or because in some way this sabotage made their “bellicose mood” much happier and relaxed? So does this mean that we have at last found the secret for deflating NATO and its aggressiveness–by sabotaging our own work, by promising to keep Novorossiya dissolved into several “special regions” for which the Nazis might at some point write their “Law” and run their “new elections”? Is it really by sabotaging genuine peace and actual principles that friends of Russia and Putin can appease, deflate and defeat NATO’s intelligence and plans, which were decades in making, as Avakov said the other night? Does this mean that the worse their work Russian diplomats do, the more they “sabotage,” the more NATO will be deflated and the better and more effective Russian diplomacy is actually going to be?
Now let’ take the key parts one by one:
“In other words“: this is the crucial introductory opening – it indicates that what will follow is not what I actually said, but what Suchan thinks I said and what will be concluded from that is, unsurprisingly, not what I meant, but what Suchan thinks I meant. In plain English – a strawman.
“they wanted to sabotage “the bellicose mood” of NATO by appeasing NATO“: actually that is not at all what I meant. Notice the missing part of my quote now put together into one:
What is certain is that this documents is imprecise, nebulous, ambiguous and otherwise vague to such a degree that I would argue that it is basically impossible to implement. But as a basis for a real ceasefire it is useless, nevermind a real negotiation for a final status agreement or peace treaty.
Now let us not confuse goals and means. In the sentence above I am looking at the means: to create a useless document impossible to implement. That is the means. The goal is not to “appease NATO” as such but to create enough friction inside NATO and the EU to prevent what was supposed to be a “historical summit” come up with anything useful. As far as that goal is concerned, I would say that it has been fully achieved. All that this so-called “historical summit” produced was hot air. Some might say that NATO could not have come up with real actions, but if we recall the various predictions before this summit that is “Monday morning quarterbacking”. Expectations ranged from overtly anti-Russian ABM deployments, to massive assistance to the Junta, to actual troops deployments into the Ukraine, to a the adoption of a “special ally status” for the Ukraine to economic sanctions on Russia. None of that happened. Why? We now know that a number of states blocked that or demanded a “delay” in implementation (which is a diplomat’s way of taking something off the table). So this part of the “plan” worked.
Now let’s look at the two key words I used:
Useless: in other words, it could not be used as a basis to do or achieve anything, it was designed to have no effect, to prevent any meaningful change in the circumstances on the ground.
Impossible to implement: again, that indicates that even if both parties wanted to do something with it, on the basis of it, they could not have done so.
What is the key feature of something useless and impossible to implement? That it collapses on it’s own. Neither the Novorussians or Russia could be blamed for its inevitable and almost immediate collapse.
So we have three characteristics spelled out now:
1) The plan was designed to create friction inside NATO. That worked.
2) The plan was designed to prevent changes on the ground. That worked.
3) The plan was designed to rapidly collapse on its own. That worked.
To suggest, as Suchan does, that this plan could in any way form the basis for a final status agreement (“promising to keep Novorossiya dissolved into several “special regions” for which the Nazis might at some point write their “Law” and run their “new elections”?”) is, at best, mistaken.
Here is the key point which is so often overlooked or misunderstood: the ceasefire agreement was not a strategic move, but a tactical one. It was never designed to achieve anything more than a short term effect on one specific event: the NATO summit.
The real contradiction
Still, those who are upset by the Agreement have, I think, a very valid point. They say that this agreement was not good for Novorussia. I think that they right, but I also think that they very much overestimate its magnitude. Let me explain what I mean.
MILITARY SITUATION
It is true that the Novorussian Armed Forces (NAF) were on the offensive and that the Junta Repression Forces (JRF) were in full retreat on all fronts. And it is true that in Mariupol the panic was such that most Ukies were on the run. I don’t think that the NAF was about to retake Debaltsevo, but I will accept that Mariupol was within reach. The strategy chosen to take Mariupol was to envelop it from the north and surround it. Some (not in the NAF, but commentators who were clearly civilians) even spoke of going all the way along the coast to “open a land bridge to Crimea”. Now let me ask this: does “creating a long but narrow advance along a barrier” remind you of something? Did we not see something like that tried out pretty recently?
Sure did.
That is what the Ukies did earlier this Spring with the ill-conceived attempt to encircle Novorussia along the Russian border. The NAF let them walk in, then they stopped them, then the cut their supply route, then the cut them into sectors and then the finished them off. And they achieved all that with numerical inferiority on their side. Now let’s look at the situation around Mariupol. Here are the latest figures for the NAF forces surrounding it:
About 6’000 soldiers, 28 tanks, 90 armored vehicles, 60 mortars, 60 artillery guns, 20 MLRS. 2’500 of these 6’000 soldiers are needed to occupy the towns around Mariupol and to keep the ONLY highway connecting the NAF forces to their rear bases in Novorussia.
What does the JRF have inside Mariupol? The same source provides the following figures: 3200 soldiers, 50 tanks, 150 armored vehicles, 120 mortars, 140 artillery guns, 70 MLRS. True, the NAF has much better morale and tactical combat skills. And the population is massively on the NAF side. But consider this: just north of Mariupol the JRF also has 3000 soldiers, 100 tanks, 200 armored fighting vehicles, 150 mortars, 140 artillery guns, 100 MLRS. So, in the operational vicinity of Mariupol the NAF is literally sandwiched in between no less then 6’200 soliders (vs 6’000 for the NAF), 150 tanks (vs 28 for the NAF), 350 armored vehicles (vs 90 for the NAF), 270 mortars (vs 60 for the NAF), 280 artillery guns (vs 60 for the NAF) and 170 multiple rocket launchers (vs 20 for the NAF). There are three very important things to keep in mind here:
1) the NAF force around Mariupol is most definitely the best and most powerful one in the NAF.
2) the figures above do only include the JRF in the operational vicinity of Mariupol and do not include the other JRF available to the Junta from it’s strategic depth.
3) there is only one highway connecting the NAF force around Mariupol to the rest of the NAF controlled Novorussia. This is why the NAF has had to put 2’500 of 6’0000 of its soldiers in protection of the rest of the NAF force available to attack or blockade Mariupol.
Are you starting to see where I am going here? If not, I will put in plainly even though I know that the amount of hate-mail is going to spike after I post this.
The attack on Mariupol was an extremely dangerous operation and those who believe that it would have been a first step towards smashing the JRF, going to Crimea or even to Kiev simply don’t realize how weak the NAF really is.
[I believe that the Russian General Staff fully understood that and that one of the factors in favor of the otherwise “useless and impossible to implement” was that it made it possible to a) stop the advance of the NAF beyond Mariupol b) talk to the NAF leadership and make them realize the risks of this move and c) probably to provide enough time to get the hell out of there before it is too late. I have no evidence for this and this is purely my guess. Hence I will put this in brackets].
What evidence do I have for the (relative) weakness of the NAF?
- The Donetsk airport is still not taken
- There are several “cauldrons” deep inside NAF controlled territory which have still not been cleared up
- Not only has Debaltsevo not been re-taken, it is under huge pressure
- The NAF offensive towards Schiastie is, so far, going nowhere.
- There is a dangerous NAF offensive from Telmanovo which puts the NAF forces in the south at great risk
I know that some will say “yes, precisely, if not for that idiotic ceasefire all these problems would have been solved by now”. Except that these “problems” have not been solved for *weeks*, not days.
I will spell out again in clear what I am trying to demonstrate with all this:
1) The ceasefire did not have a significant impact on the military situation on the ground
2) The ceasefire might well have frozen a disaster in the making
I am sorry that it took such a long way to address a topic which, apparently, Suchan does not feel needs addressing at all (he does not say a single word about the military situation on the ground) and which I feel is crucial.
The impact of the Agreement on the military situation has been twofold: it gave the JRF time to regroup and to bring in reinforcements. From that point of view it is a negative impact for the NAF and Novorussia. Let me be clear here, I AGREE that this is bad for the NAF and Novorussia. But I also think that the negative consequences of this indisputable drawback of this Agreement are dwarfed by the problems which the NAF is facing right now which have nothing to do with this Agreement. In fact, I am not even sure that the negative consequences of this Agreement are worse than one would have happened if the NAF had pushed further or attempted to take Mariupol, which I think they were about to do, and successfully so, but at the cost of creating a cauldron for themselves in fact cutting off the best and most capable part of the NAF from the rest of the NAF forces in Novorussia at a time when the Ukies were threatening from at least three directions (Schastie, Debaltsevo, Volnovakha).
Now let me ask you this: let’s suppose just for a second that I am correct and that the NAF forces in and around Mariupol would be “cauldroned-off” by a JRF counter-offensive along the Mariupol-Novoazovsk highway or an attack from Telmanovo towards Novoazovsk. Can you imagine what would happen to the rest of Novorussia if at the same time the (very large) Ukie force north of Lugansk would have gone on the offensive or if Gorlovka would have been surrounded?
So, again, I will clearly spell-out my concern: the tactical offensive towards Mariupol (unless Mariupol is taken this would not be an operational one) potentially puts at risk the very survival of Novorussia.
Am I correct? At this point I don’t know for sure. Maybe not.
But if we see a NAF withdrawal from Mariupol then this will be a sign that I might be. Besides, according to Russian sources, Mariupol is not fully surrounded anyway and the Ukies are reinforcing their garrison there through corridors on the northeast of the city. If that is true, the NAF will have to withdraw.
IN CONCLUSION
“Lasciate ogni speranza“
But here is the really nasty thing: IF the NAF withdraws from Mariupol the Putin-bashers will immediately blame the ceasefire agreement for this instead of realizing that this was the only way to avoid a strategic disaster. I have concluded that no amount of facts or logic will in any way affect this group. In their minds Putin has betrayed, period, Novorussia has been backstabbed and sold-out and the Kremlin is firmly controlled by Russian oligarchs. Frankly, I have given up any hope of even marginally affecting their certitudes or to make them doubt. Every time I try, I just get more hate mail or even full posts on other blogs explaining that I am either a complete idiot or a Putin groupie. Fine, I will plead guilty to both charges and I will go on writing for those who prefer facts and logic over strawmen and ad hominems :-)
For the rest of you
I will admit that I am worried. I have already spelled out what my main concern in my Q&A/FAQ+RFC, but I will repeat here that the main danger to Novorussia is:
“political infighting. I don’t know if this is possible right now, but I would like to see the emergence of an undisputed Novorussian leader who would have the official and full support of Strelkov, Zakharchenko, Borodai, Mozgovoi, Kononov, Khodakovski, Tsarev, Bolotov, Gubarev and all the other political and military leaders. This has to be a truly Novorussian leader, not just a “Putin proconsul”, a person capable of negotiating with Putin for the interests of the people of Novorussia. (…) Until that happens, I will always be worried for the future of the people of Novorussia”
I have always said that the interests of Russia and Novorussia are not the same. For one thing, Putin was not elected to fix the Ukraine or, much less so, start a war with NATO. My personal sympathies go to both the people of Russia and the People of Novorussia, whom I see as one and the same, really. But the fact is that Novorussia is not part of Russia (yet?) and that the people of Novorussia have not elected Putin to represent or, even less so, defend them. The Russian people have. Putin clearly has his first priority the interests of Russia and the Russian people who have elected him, and this is how it should be. To expect him to have a higher loyalty to the Novorussian people would be simply foolish. But these self-evident facts do not mean that Putin does not care or wants to “sell out” Novorussia. Guys, now please pay attention here, if Putin had wanted to “sell out” Novorussia he had the *perfect* opportunity to do so earlier this Spring. And if anybody seriously believes that the immensely successful NAF offensive last month happened without Putin’s full support – I have a bridge to sell to you!
Where do we go from here?
I don’t know except for one thing: this will be a very long struggle. Barring a successful JRF offensive in the next week or so, the frontlines will probably stabilize and freeze up. The “military action” will be replaced by the “economic and social” action as the Junta-run Banderastan collapses on its face and serious turmoil begins.
Do I think that the JRF is about to launch a counter-offensive? Yes. Or, should I say, I know I would if I was in their position. Do I think that their counter-offensive will be successful? Probably not or, at least, not much. The NAF forces around Mariupol can probably fight their way back to their rear, they might even preempt the need to do that and withdraw before any such counter-attack (that is what I would do in their place). I think that the best the JRF can hope for are a few tactical successes, but I think that by and large the NAF forces will hold. And if that is not the case, Russia will make sure that it does (as she did earlier this year). This is not about Putin, this is much bigger than him, and the Russian people or “Russia” as a nation will not allow Novorussia to be run-over by Nazis. They stopped that one this Spring and, if needed, they will do it again. And after that, they will again seek a negotiated agreement. As far as I know, not a single person in position of authority in Russia supports the idea of a “move to Kiev”, not by Russian forces, not by NAF. So two things will not happen: the Nazis will not overrun Novorussia and the (Novo)russians will not invade/liberate Banderastan. That is something the Ukrainian people will have to do themselves.
The Saker
Personal note 1: Please forgive me if I don’t reply to comments or answer emails today. I am exhausted and, frankly, rather disgusted and discouraged by this feeling that I am banging my head against a brick wall. If I do post today, it will not be on the “Putin backstabbing Novorussia” bullshit any more. Besides, I need to make a post thanking the donors to this blog, so I will do that later today (a far more pleasant task then to deal with the ugly stupidity I mention in the next personal note).
Personal note 2: I strongly urge all those who want to post hostile, rude, condescending, hateful, vitriolic or otherwise nasty comments to hurry to do so now. The first rule of the moderation policy on the new blog (I hope to have it ready very soon now) will be to immediately toss out any comment which is not 100% polite and courteous to me, the host of this blog, to any guest author or to any other person posting comments. I have put up with so much crazy shit and outright nasty attitudes on this blog that on the next one this rule will be absolutely inflexible. You will have full freedom to disagree with anything anybody writes here, but you will have to make it with absolute courtesy. But until I move to the new blog, knock yourself out, insult me to your heart’s content – that will only strengthen my resolve to toss any such comments to /dev/null on the new blog :-P
Hi, Saker! Here is an interesting text by ZeroHedge/Wikileaks. I wonder if you would want to repost it…
Confidential memo from Ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on February 1, 2008:
Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-09/ukraines-choreographed-civil-war-revealed-wikileaks
Dearest Nora:
I have given a long, long reply to your question regarding, “Mohamed, How is it in our interest to make Europe destroy itself?”
Please See Here!
Best regards,
Mohamed
Hi Saker,
Vladimir Suchan intentionally misinterpreted your post. Even I, not fluent in English understood well your thought.
You can be proud – your blog is now a factor on the internet, and there are people who want to throw mud on you by selecting separate words and constructing something completely different from what the original post was. This is the common way of the western MSM to put lies and manipulate people.
I had to look who Vladimir Suchan is. He is the typical person payed by American NGOs – in his case Canadian organizations.
Excellent decision on inflexible courtesy at all times, Saker. Makes the conversation grown-up and actually useful. John Michael Greer – on his ‘Archdruid Report’ blog – is adamant about this; and it shows mightily in the quality of the comments. Plenty of disagreement, sometimes quite spirited, but infantile insults, ad hominems and profanity absolutely excluded. Great time, energy, and goodwill saver!
Thank you for this, Saker. It is so nice to get a clear view of what is going on, rather than just histrionics or other attempts to manipulate us. (breathes sigh of relief…)
Really solid stuff. Sincere hat tip. I had not stopped to consider that in assaulting and taking Mariupol that NAF forces might be rendering themselves vulnrable to JRF counter-attack (perhaps with NATOEU overt assistance).
I am an anti-fascist and want to see any attempt by fascists to secure a land base in Europe kicked soundly in the teeth. But your analysis clearly supercedes my wishes.
Thank you for that analysis Saker – it is the most sane one yet.
The NAF seem to have forgotten that they were on the point of being wiped out just a few short weeks ago and would not have survived without Putin’s help.
The move to Mariupol, though brave and widely cheered, was also very dangerous. Anybody looking at the map could see that – they effectively doubled the length of their front line overnight.
I think their only hope to take it now would be with infiltration and an uprising of fifth columnists inside the city – still very risky and could have awful consequences if it failed.
Instead of bitching about being stabbed in the back, they should be fixing up their captured kit and positioning themselves for when the ceasefire inevitably breaks down (which I suspect will be quite soon).
Saker, et al.
I posted this link earlier on the prior Thread.
Battlefield Status
It is lengthy, detailed and, as you work through it, you will see the factual basis for the Saker’s worries about the military situation.
Victory is far from at hand. Mariupol causes big and dangerous problems.
And apparently, the militia leaders on the ground do not have a picture of the entire war. Russia and Putin, as Saker has said over and over, have the big picture and much finer granularity on the status of both forces.
Saker is correct. Everyone needs to strap on some common sense, take a look at the facts.
We all have the same goal for the outcome.
As ever a pleasure reading your analysis Saker. Don’t be disheartened by the trolls and the haters (haters gonna hate). Your blog and the other resources that has bought to my attention has become indispensable in an ocean of MSM obfuscation and lies. It is fortunate to have such access to this level of quality analysis, and your insights have certainly been a reassuring in terms of where Novorossiya stands, and a guide in how to interpret the opaque events taking place at the other side of Europe in languages I don’t understand.
I have shared links to this site wherever I can work it into a relevant conversation. Please keep on doing what you do.
(ps. It Would be great if there was a forum by the way)
@Justinian said: To Mohamed at 11:25
“Once Allah’s Apostle stood amongst the people, glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and then mentioned the Dajjal saying, “l [sic] warn you against him (i.e. the Dajjal) and there was no prophet but warned his nation against him. No doubt, Noah warned his nation against him but I tell you about him something of which no prophet told his nation before me. You should know that he is one-eyed, and Allah is not one-eyed. (Sahih Bukhari 4.553. Also, Sahih Bukhari 4.554, Sahih Muslim 41.7000)”
Not dumb – blind, arrogant, greedy. One eyed!
Salam Two Justins,
As a Shia kid, I used to take delight in debunking Sunnis with their own books called, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. Gone are those childhood days.
To the “Liver Eaters”, they take everything in the Holy Quran as literal. When it says in the Quran, that God’s two hands are open, they take it literally that God has two physical hands, rather that God is very generous.
I am pretty sure that you know that in Semitic languages, we have singular, dual and plural (three or more), not like in English language, where there is only singular and plural (two or more).
So, when I told a “Liver Eater” that the Quran tells us Allah has one eye, two eyes and three or more eyes, he freaked out about the Dajjal thingy. He challenged me, so I quoted him the verse about the single eye.
He had to scratch his head for a very, very long time and then he said that it is not literal but figurative. I told him that I rest my case, but I don’t think that he understood.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
What you wrote makes sense to me.
…..simply don’t realize how weak the NAF really is.
==================================
Let’s be clear once and for all: NAF is as much weak as Russia wants them to be.
Any tentative to explain away this blatantly obvious fact is like climbing on mirrors with an Escher painting as compass.
It’s also blatantly obvious that Russia does not think her interests coincide with Donbass ones; that’s exactly the reason why several thousands (and counting) innocent civilians have been massacred there and every vital infrastructure destroyed.
It’s less obvious that the people modeling Russia’s interests are not confusing them with their own.
I reiterate my plead to whoever is deciding Russia’s interests: let NAF be as strong as needed at least to drive out all the rats from Donbass, secure their borders and stop the massacres and destruction there.
Frankly, the cup is filled. Enough with such aulic geopolitical nonsense, while innocent people die or get kicked out of their (destroyed) homeland by millions.
Intentional misinterpretation and genuine misinterpretations are inseparable from every human expression. This can be very frustrating and often downright infuriating but humans have the unique ability to listen to one story and understand something entirely different. “Between two brains, there will always be misunderstandings and lies caused by parasitic smells, drafts and poor-quality reception”. (Empire of the Ants)
Ceasefire opinions at Saker’s:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/09/of-facts-opinion-and-mis-interpretations.html
Several points:
“1) The plan was designed to create friction inside NATO. That worked.”
Maybe, but ceasefire also should have prevented new sanctions, it didnt. And its good, maybe next time Russia wont play with Novorossia’s interests like that.
“2) The plan was designed to prevent changes on the ground. That worked.”
Yeah, it prevented NAF from winning more ground. Now they’ll have to do it anyway, just against much worse odds and with way more bloodshed, thats why so many are upset. Putin cares about Russia’s interests, NOT Novorossia’s, its secondary to Russia. Notice I’m not talking about “going to Kiev” or any such nonsense, but Russia definitely played into Ukies hands.
I also absolutely reject the notion of some bloggers that Russia had to sabotage NAF advancement to “prevent them from overextending themselves.” Are NAF leadership incompetent idiots? I can safely assume they arent, therefore this “argument” goes out of the window, and its mainly used by Putin groupies to whitewash what Russia did.
Saker thinks that attacking Mariupol is a mistake and if NAF withdraws it would mean he is right. Nope. NAF might have to withdraw precisely because of ceasefire Mariupol was NOT taken, thus with JRF renewed attack NAF would be between a hammer and a forge now.
Also some weirdly assume NAF would be in a “cauldron” if they have taken Mariupol and Junta’s counter-offense cut them off. Two reasons – Russia’s border is right there, plus there is a seaport. There is nothing junta can do to “starve out” NAF from Mariupol. Food, gas, weapons would flow in required quantities. Even militias could move in and out as needed, just not in armoured columns.
Therefore there is not many ‘potential negatives’ of taking Mariupol, but a LOT of negatives by NOT taking it.
Ok, gleaning what I can from a couple of anonymous comments on the last thread, Yats, Avakov and Kolomoiskiy have just formed a lovely new National Front party while Amnesty International (!) will be working with Porky Pie to arrest and prosecute war criminals (?) which I am guessing might be his way of fighting for his continued survival in Kiev. If I were Putin (or anyone else, actually), I’d sure rather deal with him than any of those creeps. And perhaps a bit of a deal really was struck behind the scenes? Meanwhile, Tymoshenko appears MIA, to no one’s particular regret. But what’s the deal with Antiufeev and Akhmetov and what other major players am I missing?
And in other news, Rand Paul, among others, questioned the need for the Ferguson police acting like the IDF. DHS apparently is also maybe possibly reconsidering, a smidge; the proof, of course, lies not in the Congressional hearing but what, if anything, happens as a result thereof. Nevertheless, these three pieces are pretty interesting reading:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/09/police-military-gear-riots-repay-millions-senate-ferguson
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2014/0909/Ferguson-fallout-Do-the-police-really-need-12-000-bayonets
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-unrest-senate-police-weapons-hearing.html?_r=0
It seems patently obvious to me that Putin would prefer a united Ukraine (even with an illegitimate or Nazi gov’t in Kiev) than a bifurcated Ukraine with an independent Novorossiya.
The ceasefire was as much to prevent a Kiev collapse because otherwise, it would have been an existensial crisis for Poroshenko if Mariupol had fallen. His gov’t would have collapsed and it could have led to a full out civil war in Kiev. That would have benefited the NAF.
Now the only question is: when the NAF is pushed back with better arms, NATO tactical support and regrouping by the Ukis how can he prevent a slaughter in NR which will mean hundreds of thousands more refugees to deal with in Russia itself.
You can call me a dead ender all you want, but I see the fictitious ceasefire as a Judas move by Putin to pull Pol Pot Shenko’s fat out of the fire b/c a Nazi takeover in Ukraine would be worse…for Russia.
He will gain no credit for it with the West. So what was it all for then?
I’m 100% behind Mozgovoi on this one.
Saker, I didn’t post yesterday as others were making the points I would have made, but I commend you for your interpretation of the cease fire document as it makes very much sense to me.
This morning RT has had a news item that Putin doesn’t want to get involved in an arms race – this directly goes to your points, that the entire Ukraine episode was instigated by the West in order to give NATO something to be fighting against. And if Putin had responded belligerently, they would have had all the excuse they needed to build war factories and line the pockets of the oligarchs who want to sell weapons to any group stupid enough to buy them.
NATO has to exist so that war profiteering can ratchet up; it’s as simple as that. It’s not about owning a place – its about money pure and simple – greed.
Who is the number one weapons manufacturer in the world? The US of A. Who benefits from fear and violent acts, no matter where? Raytheon and friends. Want to have a war? The US of A will be happy to oblige you.
Thank you, Saker, for all you do. We are listening and learning. I have huge respect for you, and for Putin as he faces the difficult problem of arming sufficiently to defend his borders, but knows as he does so that there will be a propaganda onslaught over any defensive measures.
Ukraine is a lesson in strategy and it is pivotal; the fate of the world is at stake. We need to learn fast and apply ourselves. Flap those butterfly wings.
I was sorry to hear the comments of the Dalai Lama. If true, they can only mean he is not well informed and hears only one side of things, not necessarily that he is a stooge of the CIA. I respect him too much to think that.
Saker – I love the YOU that shines through – and think you must be / have been an excellent parent.
Thank you for your knowledge, expertise, wisdom and time given so generously.
Hugely appreciated by this oldish gal at Southern tip of Africa – watching all fronts inside and beyond the Ukraine with roller-coaster emotions and fervent hope to see the back of AngloZio lawless tyranny on this world.
Thank You.
A rigorous and deeply thought out analysis, a sobering review of the situation on the ground and reminder of the dangers. Thank you again Saker, and thanks for bringing us back to Earth.
I watch the news from Novorossiya, whatever I can find in English, with all the passion of a football fan, and was cheering blindly as our team ran for a touchdown. But it’s not “only a game”, and it’s a part of something much bigger.
Thank you Larchmonter for your link.
As for trusting Putin, if we understand his strategy and can see that he has been pursuing it consistently, then that is what we can trust him to do – until it doesn’t work any more.
So far Putin’s strategy – building the “de-dollarization alliance” and hastening the collapse of the dollar, and in the meantime blocking US/NATO moves toward war, buying time, impeding the Empire’s drive toward world war – has included challenging the emergence of a NAZI regime in Ukraine and keeping Novorossiya alive, without giving NATO enough pretext to unite around. I don’t see why that would change.
I keep posting this link on various forums – even though I’ve read it more than once, I find it worth going back to again. It has been key to my understanding of Putin.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-18/putin-advisor-proposes-anti-dollar-alliance-halt-us-foreign-aggression?page=8
Realistic and down to earth description of weaknesses of NAF and long road ahead for it.
What I wonder is will such a on/off conflict last well into, let’s say 2015, with extremly fixed frontlines, NAF ever worried about overextending.
I couldn’t imagine for instance people of half encircled Grolovka/Horlivka waiting for new shelling, as the fronts and war simmer for weeks and possibly months, living in perpetual conditions of sleeping in basements, without water or electricity or let alone open schools or kindergartens.
Every so now and then NAF will need to mount an effort which will push off the ukranian army far enough from the most destroyed urban settlements. If they want to enjoy further population sympathies of the cities they fight for, they should.
@Nora said,
…Meanwhile, Tymoshenko appears MIA, to no one’s particular regret…
Odd that you mentioned that just now, the CBC News Network just playing a brief snippet re: Ukieland sandwiched in the relentless IS/ISIL/ISIS wall to wall propaganda, and specifically mentioned that the Gas Princess is currently working on a referendum that seeks to get NATO membership immediately. If not mistaken they “claimed” she only needs 20% (or less maybe) support to get it approved.
As far as the war drums a drummin’, they are hard selling massive military intervention in Iraq and now are priming the pump to include Syria. Not only are they focused on air strikes but are selling the concept of arming more “moderate” rebels on the ground to fight both Syria and IS. Seems like they are going to mirror how Nuttyyahoo has been ignoring the terrorists and targeting Syria via the Golan Heights region.
On yet another front, they are pushing the pro-Monarchy angle hard and pushing more threats from Cameron vs Scotland over our airwaves for some reason and how they will be cut off and feel the full brunt if they vote Yes..
DumpHarper!
There are two related possible views that present to me, both having to do with the idea of Ukies ‘regrouping’.
The first is the reports about the battered Ukie forces being rather angry at Kiev, and threatening to attack it in a .Maidan 3′. If the ceasefire has the effect of letting troops regroup and go back to Kiev, than what is Poro to do with them? The last thing he needs is a hoard of angry returning troops.
The second is the defeat of whack-a-mole, and the dispersion of Ukie troops, with a corresponding disperion of Donbas troops to counter them — all over the place. The strategy so far has been to let a strong force into an area, cut them off, and turn it into a caldron where they can be defeated, while keeping lines an concentrations for Donbas troops organized.
In the meantime, if the Ukie troops keep attacking the areas theya are in, this looks bad, as they violate the ceasefire, or if they just sit there, isolated, their supplies and moral deteriorate — zugzwang.
At the same time, tensions in Kiev among factions increase, and General Winter continues hos slow march into the area, which gives advantage to the home team.
__Blue
Of topic but yet funny. Ukranian/Nato naval exercise in the black see. Ukranian vessel almost sinks it’s self when the missile it fired came back apparently something went wrong during the launch. Anyways see for yourself.
Взбесившаяся ракета от украинского корабля на уче… på YouTube – Взбесившаяся ракета от украинского корабля на уче…: http://youtu.be/yFHl3ruVggw
“1) The plan was designed to create friction inside NATO. That worked.”
Failed!.
2 days later several nato countries started suppliying ukraine with weapons (usa, italy, norway, poland).
And hungary and australia allready did (and maybe canada and uk?).
“2) The plan was designed to prevent changes on the ground. That worked.”
Yes it did. Negative changes.
“3) The plan was designed to rapidly collapse on its own. That worked.””
Ok? Could hardly made it last anyway, but tore a big shred into the confidence of Zakh etc.
Mohamed,
I got the sarcasm. ;~) But the Empire needs its fully-compliant satraps and hangers-on, if for no other reason than to keep contributing soliders and money for arms. Sure, she’d rather have them not challenge her economic “might” (non-Arabic sarcasm?), but they’ve got to stay afloat and she’s got to stay in charge. Too much misery and dissention and those satraps fall and/or their countries pull out of the deal, one way or another. So I don’t see Obama or anyone else here deliberately encouraging a total fall-apart, slow-motion or otherwise. Obama’s family were all CIA, but not the Old Hand analyst type, the operative/handler/asset type; very different indeed. And I’m still seeing him as he was before he took office: the paradigmatic corporate tool.
Now in terms of body language, I’m no teevee-watcher but I will say this about Ashton: she is absolutely out of her element anywhere but the shallow end of the pool. She does what she’s told and they probably use simple words. Obama loathes Netanyahu but he’s just a figurehead whereas Bibi has and wields real power. I’m sure Obama would like to shiv him (me too), but he knows enough Presidential history, and current DC power politics, to know that he dare not even think too much about it. And we’ll see tonight the extent to which Obama can arm the “good” Syrian rebels to go after the “bad” ones.
Now as for taxes: the entire structure needs a total overhaul and won’t work right (i.e., at all) until the upper 5% at the very least start bearing their part of the burden. Which won’t happen any time soon since the Libertarians and all other Republicans have lowering taxes as an Article of Faith, and that’s not going to change until at least the older and/or stupider ones die out, frankly.
So no, right now I disagree with you even more strongly than before. ;~)
The Guardian is waking up:
Neo-Nazi’s
Hi Saker,
I posted a link to retired
Colonel Pat Lang blog, where he too agrees that it was best for the rebels to have a ceasefire.
Quote:
In spite of their awesome tactics, IMO the militia of Novorossiya was getting dangerously close to overextending themselves. The drive south from Donetsk began with furtive advances by small SRGs along the border. It developed into a dash to the coast before turning west to the gates of Mariupol. SRGs even pushed further west bypassing Mariupol. With Ukie reinforcements moving from throughout Ukraine to Mariupol, those separatists to the far west wisely withdrew. Without the ceasefire, those SRGs probably would have continued west towards the Crimean Isthmus. The Ukie reinforcements would still arrive and the separatists themselves could have been caught in a cauldron of their own.
The half assed ceasefire may have broken the momentum of the separatist counteroffensive, but it did not halt the Novorossiyan resistance.
end quote
Here is the link:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/09/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-ceasefire-ttg.html#comments
Saker, I agree with you that there is no reason not to trust Putin to make the best decision for RUSSIA. I also agree that the attack by Suchan was unfair and despicable.
I have no idea about military science, but still from simple logic alone I must say that I don’t find your explanation very convincing.
1) I find it hard to believe that NAF could make such a silly mistake and misjudge the numbers. I also find it hard to believe that the Russians didn’t warn them.
2) Mozgovoy and Streklov are against the ceasefire. If the problem is indeed as you describe then someone would tell them, and they (Mozg and Strelkov) would shut up and support the ceasefire. More than that, before going public with their criticism I am convinced that they double-checked with the higher-ups whether their criticism is valid at all. Obviously they can’t have any interest in dissent within NAF ranks, so if they do oppose the ceasefire then obviously there must be a very serious problem. — Please understand this correctly. If the ceasefire is due to military reasons then neither Mozg nor Strelkov would criticize it. They can only criticize the ceasefire if it is due to political reasons (which they disagree with, or simply don’t understand) at the expense of military goals.
Let me state very clearly: I PRAY TO GOD that the ceasefire is the correct decision, but from all I know unfortunately I have doubts. Please address the inconsistencies I have pointed out.
You truly have your namesake’s sight!
Our beliefs create the reality we live in. So it is possible and quite probable to have in our everyday life, situation where twoo people see the same thing but draw different conclusions. As i said, belief powerful staff.
Let us agree to disagree and stay on topic. Introduction to dialogue, chapter 1.
@Saker: Personal note 2:
I feel your frustration with having to sift through a torrent of trolls. “Automatic troll detection is the same as asking for security against critics. Trolls are just a fact of life, on the Internet and off.” –Chris Menning,
Moreover, automatic troll detection it is a full time job that requires not just knowledge of KDD but also a good working knowledge of Perl to glue all of the sub systems together, Internet protocols and its security (iptables integrated with Snort-Inline), and databases that need maintenance, monitoring, updating, and not to even mention keeping abreast of changes in the technology.
You are going to spend so much time on policing, that the quality of you writing and creative thinking will be derailed. This is what Vandals do. KISS, Keep it simple stupid. I would recommended that you utilize the vast power of your readers to find the trolls. I am sure they would feel empowered and would welcome the change.
I recommend the following process:
Add the ubiquitous like or dislike button to posts. If a poster gets a substantial number of demerits associated with his or her posts/email-address, your filter would automatically flag them. WALA, trolls are spotted and marked by your substantial community and you can add their email to a probationary status. Simply marks the troll with slightly lighter text during the probationary period. If they continue, blacklisted and sent to /dev/null forever!
WALA! You get to spend time on better things.
@EvaCB
English version of Colonel Cassad blog ( cassad-eng.livejournal.com ) was frozen by Live Journal service. Translator is trying to unblock it. Meanwhile, as was already been told, you can use original Russian version of his blog at http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/ translating it at http://translate.yandex.com/
As for who “Colonel Cassad” is and who he represents. He is a Crimean bloger, Boris Rozhin, from Sevastopol (here is video with him (in Russian): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am6AztYXPSM#t=89 ). He was already relatively popular before, but became very popular after Ukrainian crisis began as a best first-hand source about events. He has some contacts among Novorossiyan militia, also he is one of the organizers of humanitarian aid delivery center in Rostov that helps Novorissiyan resistance, civilians and refugees. I don’t think he represents someone particular and that is a good thing, because he says exactly what he thinks and reports events as they are.
Important development about MH17 – German regime report saying the airliner was not hit by a Buk missile..
«Бук» по Боингу не целил (“Beech” Boeing is not aimed)
http://www.km.ru/world/2014/09/10/katastrofa-malaiziiskogo-boinga-pod-donetskom/748310-buk-po-boingu-ne-tselil (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.km.ru/world/2014/09/10/katastrofa-malaiziiskogo-boinga-pod-donetskom/748310-buk-po-boingu-ne-tselil
“The German government has released a document that essentially removes all the accusations against the army of Novorossia
From the preliminary report of the Dutch Commission on the fate of the Malaysian airliner MH17 world learned little new. Common words. But the German government as casually gave important secret: Buk” the plane was not shot down, reports our author Kurt Meyer from Berlin…”
The report:
http://www.jungewelt.de/downloads/mh17.pdf
Also, German people are not happy with their government’s servitude to the USA.
Более половины жителей Германии отказались быть вассалами США (More than half of Germans refused to be vassals of the U.S.)
http://www.km.ru/world/2014/09/10/748324-bolee-poloviny-zhitelei-germanii-otkazalis-byt-vassalami-ssha (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.km.ru/world/2014/09/10/748324-bolee-poloviny-zhitelei-germanii-otkazalis-byt-vassalami-ssha
“Most Germans do not want the German government depended on the opinions of the Washington foreign policy. It is reported by The Local ( http://www.thelocal.de/20140910/germans-want-more-independence-from-usa ) with reference to the research data center of the German Marshall Fund.
Experts say the explosive growth in the number of citizens advocating for the independence of Berlin in diplomatic matters. Last year, supporters of an independent foreign policy was 40 percent, this year is 57 percent.
Further close cooperation with the United States supported only 19 percent of respondents. Employees of the German Marshall Fund of the stress that for dissociation from indicating Washington also perform more than half of Europeans.
Despite disapproval by the Germans zaiskivanie Berlin before Washington, Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel continues to act in the Wake of White House policy…”
Germany, and the rest of Europe, are long over due for their own “color revolutions”. ;)
вот так
Anonymous said…10 September, 2014 19:14
“The Guardian is waking up:”
Waking up? No. They are moving to a “cover our exposed backsides” mode after all their shilling for the same zio sponsored nazis seriously bit into their already poor credibility. It’s standard proceedure in the zio media. They promote the extreme ZPC propaganda as long as possible, then drop parts of it as these become untenable. The Guardian does this all the time and so does the other zio media. Remember “Iraqi WMDs”? Nothings changed with the zio media, which is why it really needs to be boycotted into bankruptcy and obscurity. Especially the more clever tools of the ZPC, like the Guardian, which specialise in co-opting real independent analysis and news reporting.
вот так
You want some good news? Sharapova qualified for the WTA finals in Singapore.
VladTheFluffy says:
Dear Saker
Please don’t get disheartened or frustrated by the stupidity or attacks on you. In marketing they say “ … if you’re selling to everyone, you’ll sell to no-one”, e.g. you can’t be all things to all people. The pols pretend they do, whilst everyone with half a brain cell sees through this and realise they only stand for themselves. One famous marketer even says that it should be your aim to get some people angry, it means that you stand for something and/or against something, things that they hold dear. You can be sure that if this is the case, you’ll have another group of people cheering for you, hopefully the group you’re aiming at. I post here precisely because of that, what you’re saying is aimed towards and resonates with me. I’m sure that applies to most others here. As for the rest, regard it as a measure of success, your efforts are working.
To understand the methods of the trolls see this article by Glen Greenwald: http://goo.gl/GYHtjX . The best way to counter it is outlined in this post on Washingtons Blog: http://goo.gl/PpjmZd . The point is, welcome it. You’re obviously p*ssing off someone who’s prepared to pay these gibbons some money to post here. That’s a couple of dollars that won’t go to killing someone in some part of the world. Keep going buddy, you’ve got friends, we’ve got your back.
oh pls saker … do you really think, NATO makes any decisions on a “summit”? “summit’s” are for soda and pie, for smiling for the cameras and posing in front of fancy weapon systems …
I’ve been “crowing” that folks should check out your site often. I make sure to explain that you’re biased in favour, like myself, of the freedom fighters in Novorussia and unapologetic about it. Informed creditable and remarkable coverage is how I end. Jim from central Ontario Canada.
@вот так 19:50
Very correct. The Guardian is now looking for an exit strategy now that the tide may well be turning against Pottyshenko. I’m relieved to see that many of the comments on the article are now scolding the website for branding posters as “putinbots” when they previously attempted to explain the neo-Nazi hold of Ukraine. The big bonus is that is also the most read article on the Guardian’s world section!
There is also an interesting article about the cover up behind the Odessa massacre (courtesy of Guardian commenter TOR2000). http://en.itar-tass.com/world/748789
Keep up the good work Saker, I’m still digesting yesterday’s article.
Best wishes
VladTheFluffy says:
Nora, your post at 10 September, 2014 19:13 regarding Whoozzat Ashton and her capabilities reminds me of a comment allegedly made by a British Royal Navy officer in a review of one of his subordinates: “… She’d be out of her depth in a car park puddle … “. However, we musn’t let her take all the limelight, I think we can also award such a distinction to Mssrs (correctly pronounced “messers”) Rompuy, Borroso and “Brain Fogh” Rassmusson. Stand up lady and gentlemen to your full intellectual height of 2 microns and be recognised for what you are.
In the absence of genuine knowledge one has to take the clues one can from the available mileue. I for one think you are doing a marvellous job of distilling sense from the maelstrom of disinformation and clueless opinionating that passes for fact in this miserable war on the spirit of humanity. Keep it up , we owe it to the future children of utopia.
In the absence of genuine knowledge one has to take the clues one can from the available mileue. I for one think you are doing a marvellous job of distilling sense from the maelstrom of disinformation and clueless opinionating that passes for fact in this miserable war on the spirit of humanity. Keep it up , we owe it to the future children of utopia.
My partner and I read with great interest your blog all the way from New Zealand. We have woken up to the lies and deceit of the West parroted by the Western media. We both watch the situation in the Ukraine and rely on your blog to provide what we think is excellent analysis of the situation. WE very much appreciate your efforts and I have shared your blog with many people. Not that I think they will follow you because at this stage they are caught up in Western lies and believe what they hear and read from the Western news media. But at least people are awakening and your blog has been part of the awakening for us.
Saker, thanks for the thoughtful insights.
One more thing that needs to be pointed out is that the infrastructure of Mariopol has to be considered in this discussion.
The JRF has overtaken towns and villages simply by destroying them.
Clearly the NAF cannot recapture Mariopol using the same tactics
Thus we are talking about bitter street to street fighting with heavy casualties for both sides.
In the end, even if NAF is successful, the retreating JRF artillery could still flatten the city hurting both civilians and infrastructure.
Recapturing Mariopol is a tall order. Hopefully it could be avoided if the other side crumbles on its own
Regards from Canada
Saker, thanks for the thoughtful insights.
One more thing that needs to be pointed out is that the infrastructure of Mariopol has to be considered in this discussion.
The JRF has overtaken towns and villages simply by destroying them.
Clearly the NAF cannot recapture Mariopol using the same tactics
Thus we are talking about bitter street to street fighting with heavy casualties for both sides.
In the end, even if NAF is successful, the retreating JRF artillery could still flatten the city hurting both civilians and infrastructure.
Regards from Canada
another point. “negotiating” with nazis. nazis are not the usual sort of fascists or militants. nazis do not recognise every kind of humans as such. and if you are not recognised as a human beeing by them, they simply won’t care for any treaty or agreement.
in other words, you can always scratch diplomacy if your counterpart thinks you are a “subhuman”. and the longer the junta is in power in kiew, the more ukies will think that way. just saying …
btw. i’d read somewhere that the NAF was goin for mariopol, because there is a huge grain depot or something like that.
someone from germany
@Nora: So no, right now I disagree with you even more strongly than before. ;~)
Excellent Dearest Sister Nora! ~:)
We have now two groups, one group says that the cease fire was a sell-out and the another group looking at the longer term. I am with the longer term group.
God Knows Better!
However, you should see the recent body language of Netanyahu after the Gaza War. He seems lost …….
As far as taxes are concerned, due to very, very high unemployment, there is too much drain on the federal budget and not enough contributors. In the good old days, total employment was considered as 4% unemployment. A President who had 6% unemployment was considered un-electable. Dubya changed the measurement rules of measuring the unemployment. We are in fog now.
We need FDR New Deal. Build new infrastructure, roads and bridges such as I10, I20, I30, I40 …. I95, I85, I75 with cement and not tar from coast to coast, from North to South. Once this is done, completely destroy the old infrastructure, instead of repair it and replace it with new one. Two sets due to increase in traffic.
Create full employment, and the coffers will be full of new contributors. Not only it will reduce the poverty but at the same time reduce the crime too.
Am I dreaming? I think, it is better than the collapse where the masses will really, really suffer. Much more suffering than presently.
I am always praying, for my beloved country,
Mohamed.
I’m catching up and posting in a hurry, but my two cents about recent developments is that Russia and Putin have consistently acted to prevent a cold war from going hot throughout this entire Ukraine situation, and they continue. Mostly that has required finessing Kiev, and lately it seems to have required finessing the NAF.
I have to believe that whatever situation room in Russia is focused on the Ukraine conflict, it has the lights on 24 hours a day, and has been strongly advising on each tactical move, if not actually calling the shots. I think NAF has stopped short of over-reaching in a potentially disastrous way, and with perfect timing.
Hi Saker, I would just like to say that I agree with your analagy of the situation, I have been reading with interest your blog for weeks now and found it most informative.
I would like to add that it concerned me greatly when NAF made the push to Mariupol with out first consolidating the territory they were already holding, namely dealing with the cauldrons, Donetsk Airport and Gorlovka.
It concerns me that people are expecting too much to fast in Novorussia it takes time to build a state. With the extent of damage to the two oblasts at present Novorussia I fear could not succeed as an independent state.
Poroshenko is putting forward leglislation for special status with regard to self governence with plans for decentralisation for the other regions of Ukraine – This surely should be taken as a major victory for Novorussia. They can use the status for building the foundations for Independence in the future whilst benefiting from International aid to rebuild the damaged infrastructure. They will also have more power over the new government than they could as an independent state. A phrase comes to mind here – “keep your friends close and your enemies even closer”.
It is now time to take this from the military level to the political one – Novorussia must make sure that they are as politically strong and astute as they are militarily.If they play the political game well they can only grow and Mariupol and other cities will come to them.
If they do not have the political strength to achieve this the unfortunately they were not ready to build and independent state.
After the winter when the austerity measures have bitten the rest of the Ukraine population hard, Kiev will be in for a very uncomfortable time.
Even if at the moment Novorussia cannot exist as an independent state it will live in the hearts as a political movement.
People keep mentioning the independence referendum in Scotland but it should be noted that it took years for Scotland to get devolution of powers (Novorussia seems to have achieved that it just a few months). It took even more years just to get the chance to vote for independence so please take heart from this.
Best regards to all.
very informative post , saker.
What is your opinion on the weather, e.g the coming winter. Does ,
1.the winter “freeze” the conflict?
and
2. can the army stay in the field or do they need to retreat into bases ?
Where am I gonna get analysis like this, real time, anywhere else but Saker blog? Brilliant all around.
Still, those who are upset by the Agreement have, I think, a very valid point. They say that this agreement was not good for Novorussia.
Let’s not be too hard on the Putin bashers who are usually die hard supporters of the Novorussian ideal. Each viewpoint contributes something to our overall project as a single instrument contributes to the symphony as a whole. That’s why this place has soul. I hope the new site retains every bit of it.
In the case of the people who seem to live and die based on this or that agreement, event and so on, these are the people who will not let Novorussia die. They are absolutely necessary and not just as a foil for Putin.
If one sees Putin as exclusively the leader of the Russian nation state, then his so-called ‘betrayals’ make perfect sense and confirm one’s belief that he will abandon the Resistance. If we see him as a leader who is carefully managing multiple aspects of a civilizational struggle, things always look much better.
Putin will not abandon Novorussia. It is an impossibility.
The problem with such good leadership is that others (in Novorussia) take it for granted and leave it up to Russia and the man to solve all their problems. One more cause for NAF’s slow development has been the brilliant, inspiring and sometimes unfortunately too soothing leadership of VVP. In order to do his job properly sometimes he needs to scare the crap out of the Novorussians — sorta like a Doctor slaps a baby’s ass (or used to) soon after the child is born. The message is Hey, wake up. You’re alive! Things out here in the real world are often very painful. Get used to it.
When Putin first said the word “Novorussia” he was making a long term, iron-clad committment. Sometimes it’s better that the people of Novorussia remain not so sure as to his intent.
I’m always grateful for this very unique virtual head space. 100 RT’s couldn’t replace the value of the Saker blog for me and apparently, anyone who wants to think about and understand something about the great spiritual struggle of our day. Forget copying CNN or BBC propaganda tricks. Far more can be learned by the information managers in Russia and elsewhere simply by looking carefully at this blog. It’s here you’ll find that narrowest of narrow paths to the truth that will destroy your enemy.
Mr. Suchin’s “In other words” and his linear thinking, as if a word only has one meaning (his), is very American.
I don’t know who he is, or where he is from, or what he has done, but his logic is familar. MSM? Was he once an intern at the NYT?
Hey Saker ,
You should take my advice.
Stop responding strongly to
your critics, you are giving
them more exposure with your
comments in articles which should be about issues.
The more people write and analyze the more opportunity for criticism,
that comes with the territory.
At this point I care more about Justice for the Russians of Ukraine than Russians in Russia.
People should of learned great lessons of the past
regarding Yugoslavia/Serbia,
and all the NeoCon ” colored revolutions ” , are enemies are very organized and never stop, ” they pay salaries ” Pat Buchanan.
This needs to end soon, not in 10 years. Strelkov is right, Putin better listen.
Best Regards Saker
To all the naysayers, take what you will from here and other sources, it is what it is, we are just observers, all Western countries are being destroyed and others, we are all in it together, this is why I root for Novo Russia, we need a victory.
ELEUTHERIA H THANATOS !
MAGNES
Dear Saker,
Thank you for this really helpful piece!
On the subject of the NAF people I am not a military man but I have recently been provided with an authoritative account of its order of battle (on the internet shortly). Apart from the various embedded units defending places like Donetsk and Lugansk it apparently has three (!) manoeuvre infantry brigades and (as of the time of the start of the offensive) less than 100 tanks. After the continuous fighting in the two weeks preceding the ceasefire the men in these three brigades must be exhausted and the machines must require an urgent refit. People are simply not being realistic in what they are expecting the NAF to do. Give it time.
By the way I thought your comparison with Vietnam was brilliant. What we have seen is the equivalent of the Tet Offensive, an offensive that has shattered the myth that the government is winning. Psychologically, militarily and politically the gains have been enormous. Donetsk and Lugansk, under serious threat just 3 weeks ago, are now secure and more Russian humanitarian aid will go there. A secure base has been achieved at enormous cost and that is a huge achievement. This is the time to build up and consolidate not to engage in misinformed panic, recriminations and backbiting especially as the junta’s economic position is deteriorating with confirmation today that Poland and probably Slovakia are no longer prepared to supply it with gas through the reverse flow scheme.
Nora said…10 September, 2014 18:11
“Meanwhile, Tymoshenko appears MIA, to no one’s particular regret.”
In the western zio media she’s been sidelined, probably due to her opposition to Poroshenko. She is busy right now set up a new Ukrainian “revolution”, with herself as the fearless leader. She is still frequently in Russian and Ukrainian media. In fact she just confirmed one of the pros of the ceasefire agreement:
Тимошенко: Киев де-факто признал ДНР и ЛНР (Tymoshenko: Kiev de-facto recognized DND and LNR)
http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/9/8/704615.html (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.vz.ru/news/2014/9/8/704615.html
“The former Prime Minister of Ukraine, leader of the Batkivshchyna party Yulia Tymoshenko has expressed the opinion that Kiev signed with the militia Protocol ceasefire in the East of Ukraine, the de facto recognized the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk national Republic.
“In Minsk protocols were signed a temporary ceasefire in the East of Ukraine. I want to say that these signed protocols are extremely dangerous for the integrity of the territory of Ukraine and to our sovereignty”, – said Tymoshenko, her words leads RIA “Novosti”.
“I believe that these protocols are threatening to Ukraine, because in these protocols recognized by unknown formation LNR and DND as the official party, which they signed”, – she added.
In her opinion, this may give reason to believe that Ukraine acknowledged the fact that the conduct of the civil war…”
That is a point people have made in its favour about the controversial ceasefire agreement. No doubt Timopsycho isn’t the only junta nazi upset, which confirms another point made in the agreement’s favour in that it helps along further division among the junta leaders and sheep.
вот так
I am 100% insynck with you on this, and to the Russians, I belive, they do the, Await and see, what will eventaully be an next phase of events, and thing do as sayed beofre by you, runn in sevrall parralel issues.
Economics.
The sanctions whom I sayed is more a kind of agruing about what foot they shall shoot of them selfs, right or left.
liping will be the result anyway.
Military, isnt that important right now, but the EUs internal struggle on their own massive clusterf…ups are beginning to backfire.
Their escalations to the Levante, may be the only rest the NRA will gett, and the Russians sould stopp pussy footing and come up with rockhard counter sactions, as the next phase to give the morons in Germany a short sight of the future of the eCONomy as it will implode, wil the EUs own land scollapse, printing money for their lifes, and throws it into a black whole of an finnacial abyss, created by Banks and so on, with legaised plundeiring as the latest solution, witch will be, the eqvivalence of chopping their own head of, with a table knife, it will take some time, but the head will eventually be cutt lose.
And, the MSM, whom is comed to a cross road, where they have realised that NOBODY belives them any more, the lies to obvious, the acidheads and their trippings lately, have done things wurse, no matter what the corruptrd politicians state or belive, we all know they lie, because people have finnaly awaken to the facts, they lie all the time.
The real problem is basicly the insane uSSa, and their raving mad NeoCons and ZioNazis.
But. despite this, I d
feel that the monetum lost, was probably the wurst thing that could happened to you.
It may work out, but the raod there will be long and winding.
To the Muslims, there is a reason for the cresent mon, attaced to the orthodox cross (bysantine rom), they are the same, and I have given you the statments given by the MAN him self, so further drivel isnt needed, and I never understands how they wants ME to belive they fight for their own people, when they slaughter everything in their path, a freedomfighting org, will NEVER,EVER kill people they a fighting for, thats why I dont belive a f… thing about the Islamic issue nor the massive wal of pure manre fabricated about Islam, since they all are made possible by the uSSA and Israel, like the Islamuic front terrorising Iran, stagnly anouf, they arent cosidered a terror org, by the uSSa, but Hamas is, huh, do enlighten us about that.
peace
God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
― Mark Twain
Hello,
your explanations were clear since the beginning (if one is willing to read what you say and not what he thinks you say), your analysis sensible (if one is willing to know about the situation and not just wanting to hassle you for an opinion different than his own), your daily reporting highly interesting and bringing fresh air and hope, yes hope, for a better balanced world. Of course you are in the shooting line of a lot of people: you can’t escape that, your position being what it is. But I am sure that you have many, many friends with faces unknown to you. Please don’t worry for writing too much: you can’t possibly write too much. As I said, you are bringing oxygen in the world of information, and I want once again thank you for what you do.
Salam
Abdelnour
Greetings from Singapore:
#Ceasefire #Novorrosiya. In times of war there is no place for dissent or debate. There is no democracy. The leader alone carries the responsibility for tactical moves and we should follow (or pack and go).
The task of dealing with Mariupol has bothered me. How would it be done? Would the NAF do it what the Ukies have done to Donetsk and Lugansk? If so, how would that affect their standing with ordinary people?
Maybe the best solution would be to draw the Nazis out of the town into open country, where they could be dealt with. Failing that, maybe conditions could be set up for the people to drive them out of town? Is that feasible? There is evidence that the supposed pro-regime stance is the result of intimidation and manipulation, e.g. bussing in people to present apparently overwhelming pro-regime support in the town square. If this can be broken, then maybe yes.
Dear Saker
Excellent post. Your interpretation of the agreement makes more sense for me than most I’ve read otherwise. Some people see it differently, so what? Don’t take it to heart most of us know the importance of your blog. Disagreement, dispute, and even hatred among the supporters of Novorussia help but only the enemies.
In addition, yet nothing happened. The cease-fire won’t last long. The JRF but also the NAF get so time to organize themselves and to rest. The upcoming negotiations will determine further development.
Meanwhile Putin is working to develop the multipolar world, e.g. tomorrow at the SCO summit. He will also continue to do everything for Novorussia, what is necessary and possible. But his first task is to protect Russia.
Dear Saker,
I don’t share your conviction that the nebulous language of the armistice shows that it is not serious. On the contrary, I believe that in this stage of the conflict it is the logical approach. Any specific agreement would immediately be targeted by factions on both sides as a sellout or betrayal. So they chose the alternative approach of a vague agreement with Poroshenko and Putin as guaranteers. This means that whenever a problem arises the top from both sides will talk it out and impose a solution. Of course this will only work as long as both sides stay committed.
Neither party concluded the truce with the idea that peace was around the corner. They had a lot of more immediate concerns like the NATO summit and Mariupol – as you excellently explained. Yet the agreement does mean a first step towards peace. Poroshenko is now talking with people who he previously rejected as “terrorists”. That puts pressure on him to find proposals that might appeal to those people – and pressure to sell this to his own people. I see this as a first step towards peace.
Even if the fights resume there will still be established contacts that make it easier to re-establish talks or a new truce.
If nothing else it looks like the Nazi battalions are now subject to a backdoor deal between Putin/Poroshenko. A series of articles in the western press, certain announcements, the Yats opposition party – selling out the right wing is a necessary component for Pigshenko, in order to obtain real western political, financial, military support. However, as everybody knows, to the extent he moves in this direction, he is at increased risk.
The NAF can manipulate the resultant situation to their benefit on the ground. Rather than actually eliminating the Nazis, they can drive them west. They will have to regroup in the center – how long will it be before they realize the southeast is a death trap?
If Mozgovoi and Strelkov believe Zakharchenko and Plotnitskiy “betrayed” Novorossia, and thousands of Militia agree, then why haven’t they arrested them and put them on trial?
Perhaps the armchair generals can explain?
I don’t know whether or not Mariupol was ‘doable’ or not, or whether if it had been taken things would be better or worse. This may have been the origin of the dispute, though — if there really was one.
Armchair generals opening a second bottle of vodka and declaiming treason and betrayal is ignorable.
Here are two undisputable facts about the situation:
1. Russia is happy to sell gas to Europe, and Europe is happy to buy it. In the middle is Ukraine which is unreliable for both parties, no matter Ukraine is considered “pro-Europe” or “pro-Russia” at any given moment.
2. No revolution succeeds in the modern world without major support from a powerful state. For the DNR that is Russia. Who else?
Opening yet another bottle will not change the reality.
Bizarre Event of the Day
The Avaiationist reports that a US Chinook helicopter and 5 Blackhawk helicopters landed in a field near Gruta in Poland, some 180 km north west of Warsaw.
The publicly reported reason is that the pilots got lost in the heavy fog covering the area and landed to ask locals where they were. However, photos taken of the helicopters and locals show no fog, and even shadows indicating broken cloud.
If the bad weather explanation is true, it does not bode well for any US/NATO conventional attack against Russia as it seems NATO hardware doesn’t work too well in bad weather. Maybe they should buy a Glonass compatible GPS system?
Dear Saker,
Don’t even think about wasting your precious energy and time for the losers.
People who doesn’t understand that somebody else could have a different feeling, different opinion; professional education and so on, they will be always on the edge to hurt you, no matter what.
These are the signs of desperation because the truth is coming out from the every single corner of this earth. They CAN’T stop this train it is already in a very high speed, speed for the freedom,justice and the end of the 500 years of slavery.
Blessings to you and to your dear family.
The reason I became involved in the affairs of eastern Ukraine, was subsequent to the downing of MH17, when I came across the deaths of civilians through deliberate shelling of civilian areas with inaccurate GRADs.
That is why I stated elsewhere that the PRIMARY objective of the separatist military was to prevent the further murdering of civilians, not to conquer other places.
OT Bizarre Event of the Day
The Avaiationist reports that a US Chinook helicopter and 5 Blackhawk helicopters landed in a field near Gruta in Poland, some 180 km north west of Warsaw. This represents about $200 million of the Finest Military Hardware (TM) that Democracy (TM) can buy.
The publicly reported reason is that the pilots got lost in the heavy fog covering the area and landed to ask locals where they were. However, photos taken of the helicopters and locals show no fog, and even shadows indicating broken cloud.
If the bad weather explanation is true, it does not bode well for any US/NATO conventional attack against Russia as it seems NATO hardware doesn’t work in bad weather.
Dear Saker
I came to your blog a little while ago, from a position of understanding and caring passionately about Russia.
I came to this position by reading a shelf full of books I collected. I started with the truth about the Revolution, then I went back to learn more about Tsarist times and I also included Solzhenitsyn’s writings. I even found almost all the chapters of his “200 Years Together” book on the net. People had given the time and energy to translating the Russian. (This book has not been translated into English in book form.)
I then moved forward and read as much as I could about Putin, and what he had done for Russia.
I have admiration for this man. I think that he truly loves his country.
So when I came across your blog, with its detailed information, I was thrilled. It is now on my list of blogs I read every day.
So I thank you very much for what you are doing. You are definitely pushing against the tide, as the “hate Putin/Russia” meme is so strong now. But you are needed so much.
And speaking of bizarre, here is your coping-skills test of the day: please rate whether you swore loudly, softly, not-at-all or just laughed your head off after reading the following three RIA-Novosti headlines:
1. Ukraine’s President Poroshenko Invited to Address US Congress
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140910/192821969/Ukraines-President-Poroshenko-Invited-to-Address-US-Congress.html
2. Ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine Completely Observed: National Security and Defense Council
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140910/192821171/National-Security-and-Defense-Council-Ceasefire-in-Eastern.html
3. Russia’s UN Envoy: Excluding Russia From UN Security Council Impossible
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140911/192823036/Excluding-Russia-From-UN-Security-Council-Impossible.html
Extra credit, of course, for shaking your head, taking a deep breath and walking away to play with your kids, pet your pets, do something creative or get some work done — and/or finding other equally bizarro-world headlines… ;~)
Hi Saker
I think it would be useful to look at the bigger picture and take away the narrow focus from just East Ukraine.
I; like you, have long realised that the prime US motivation in all this was to provoke Putin to intervene directly in the Ukraine. That he has been able to manage events without such recourse so far is immensely to his credit.
But there are Global issues and the US clearly anticipated that the “fall” of Putin with have been achieved by now and the NATO summit their crowning glory over his scalp.
It has not happened and there is still a world of troubles in which they will need to work with Russia to be able to make progress. How difficult will that now be?
In addition, look at how they have had to contradict themselves in terms of policy, the tricks they have pulled and the pretexts, precedents they have tried. All these things will surely come back to haunt to them in the coming years.
There is also the serious prospect of Scotland voting yes in its Independence referendum and torpedoing Americas, unsinkable aircraft carrier in Europe. The loss of NATO facility, Trident and the permanent UK seat on the UNSC would all be big news.
I would be interested in hearing you share your views on these wider issues.
CharlieH, I fear that ‘fascists’ already control the EU. Capitalism is crypto-fascism (one author calls the US social dispensation ‘friendly fascism’, or did twenty years ago, it being rather less ‘friendly’ these days) in periods of economic growth and social peace, but when the interests of the tiny, parasitic, elites for whom it exists are threatened, as they most certainly are now, it transmutes itself into really existing fascism-corporatism plus state power.
CharlieH, I fear that ‘fascists’ already control the EU. Capitalism is crypto-fascism (one author calls the US social dispensation ‘friendly fascism’, or did twenty years ago, it being rather less ‘friendly’ these days) in periods of economic growth and social peace, but when the interests of the tiny, parasitic, elites for whom it exists are threatened, as they most certainly are now, it transmutes itself into really existing fascism-corporatism plus state power.
Looks like Israel conducted a ballistic missile test.
Russian Missile Warning System Tracks Ballistic Missile Launch Towards Israel: Ministry
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140909/192771734/Russian-Missile-Warning-System-Tracks-Ballistic-Missile-Launch.html
“Updated 3:28 p.m. Moscow Time
MOSCOW, September 9 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s early warning missile system tracked on Tuesday the launch of a ballistic missile from the Mediterranean Sea toward Israel, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov said.
“The radar fixed the launch of a ballistic target in the Mediterranean Sea at 12:31 Moscow time [08:31 GMT],” Konashenkov said.
The trajectory of the missile originated from the central region of the Mediterranean Sea and headed toward the eastern shores. The suspected target was suspected of landing some 300 kilometers to the north of Tel Aviv…”
No doubt the missile was nuclear capable. Something very wrong with a world that allows masada freaks nuclear weapons and ballistic means to deliver them.
Nora said…10 September, 2014 23:36
“3. Russia’s UN Envoy: Excluding Russia From UN Security Council Impossible”
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140911/192823036/Excluding-Russia-From-UN-Security-Council-Impossible.html
I wonder which Israeli colony suggested excluding Russia….
вот так
Nora:
Here is another one that will make you howl
http://rt.com/news/186780-war-crimes-ukraine-amnesty/
There was quite a discussion 10 min ago on twitter between Gleb Bazov and Novorossyian on whether Saker is revisionist. Yikes! The Ceasefire splits the analysts. But all respectful of Saker as a person.
No mention in your article about the oligarch who wants Mariupol to stay out of NAF hands. An oversight, or not?