Dear friends,
Thanks again to the fantastic work of the Russian Team I can share with you the English translation of an article I find most important at a time when so many commentators and analysts are completely misreading the situation in Novorussia. This article (translated by Marina and proofread/edited by Alex, John and Michael – thanks guys!) addresses some of the most prevalent arguments used by what I would call the “Dugin camp” to, yet again, stir up a panic when there is no reason for it (but then, Dugin has been having panic attacks as soon as he realized that Putin would not send the military into the Donbass). Frankly, while I never liked Dugin very much, I now am beginning to find him outright dangerous and I am delighted to be able to share with you a sober-minded analysis of what took place in Minsk. This analysis has been written by Yuri Baranchik, candidate of philosophy, director the Information-Analytical Internet Portal “Imperia” and former director of the State Scientific Research Institute of the Academy of Theory and Practice of Government of the President of Belarus. He is a regular contributor to the website Vzgliad where I found this article (original Russian text here).
Kind regards,
The Saker
PS: there is one good thing about Dugin’s latest panic campaign: it puts to rest the theory mantrically put forth by the western MSM about Dugin being “Putin’s ideologue” or “Putin’s ideological advisor” and any other such nonsense. This was never true (unlike Dugin, Putin never was a Bolshevik), but at least now this is obviously and undeniably untrue.
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Novorussia – Surrender or victory?
by Yuri Baranchik
So, what happened in Minsk? Surrender or victory? This is the kind of argument that not only the average citizen of our immense territory is currently having, but unfortunately, also a significant part of the expert community. There is no simple answer to this question without considering what had happened a week earlier in Brussels at the EU summit and at the NATO summit on the 4th and 5th of September in Newport, Wales.
Russia won a political victory in Brussels: the EU (Germany and the countries of the Old Europe) refused to impose new sanctions against Russia under pressure from the United States and its most loyal vassal states (Britain, Poland, the Baltic States and Ukraine). Thus, the EU chose not to escalate the conflict with Russia on the eve of winter. Furthermore, the EU itself has advised a way out of the situation on the South Stream and remove it from the sanctions of the Third Energy Package: to apply the same rules that apply to offshore projects of the EU; for example in Bulgaria, to allow Gazprom to buy them and connect them to the “South Stream”.
Despite the many hints and threats from the USA’s poodles on the eve of the summit of NATO member countries (as we have discussed in detail in the article “The fate of Novorossia: the US raising the stakes”: a) a threat of deployment of a European missile defense system against Russia; b) establishing five new NATO bases in Poland, Romania and the Baltic States; c) breaching the terms of the Founding Act “Russia – NATO”), the summit only concluded with an official statement, which reflects the opinion of the North Atlantic Alliance on the current events on the territory of the disintegrating Ukraine.
As expected, NATO condemned the Russian military invasion of the Ukraine; urged Russia to withdraw its military from Ukraine; to cease its assistance to the militias and intervening in the situation in Ukraine under any pretext. There was no discussion of anything else – not about the violation of the terms of the Founding “Russia – NATO” Act, the deployment of the European missile defense, or of NATO bases in the five above-mentioned countries. According to Rasmussen, he took into consideration (it can’t be said any better) the desire of the Poles, Balts and Romanians to place NATO “transit points” on their territories.
What does this tell us? The EU, despite all of the threats and cries of the U.S. and their accommodating “tough-talking” poodles, is not ready to go beyond the current level of confrontation with Russia. Germany, the countries of not only the Old Europe (Greece, Italy) but also the New Europe (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary) have opposed the escalating level of anti-Russian rhetoric, the development of new sanctions, and especially, the inclusion of mechanisms and instruments of pressure by NATO.
Furthermore, the recent summits in Brussels and Newport showed that Europe wants to end the current tense relationship with Russia as quickly as possible and return to the previous level of cooperation, despite, let me stress, the current events in Ukraine. In fact, Europe agrees with the return to Russia of her historical territories (Crimea and those regions of Ukraine which had been given to her by the Bolsheviks) in exchange for an uninterrupted supply of gas and the continuation of mutually beneficial trade and economic cooperation.
The reason for this is that Europe is not happy with the new format of Ukraine’s statehood, which was established there after the February revolution. Therefore, this dangerous regime, which entails instability, has to end. In the way it was hinted at the talks in Minsk on the eve of winter.
Therefore, the achievement of the ceasefire agreement between the junta and the representatives of Novorossia in Minsk is a major victory for Russia, because it didn’t allow the United States to sever relations between Russia and Europe and gave Europe the necessary arguments for the rejection and blocking both in Brussels and in Newport, of the decisions that the US was prepared to launch against Russia. It is a big joint victory for Russia and the EU today.
Now let’s go back to the long-suffering Novorossiya. Many, even such distinguished experts as Boris Rozhin, consider what has happened as a sell-out of Novorossia. Let’s look at this in more detail.
First, apparently, Poroshenko and the junta are not going to abide by the terms of the truce – the shelling of Donetsk, Lugansk, and Gorlovka and the fighting in the district of Mariupol by the junta’s troops continue. Therefore, the hands of the resistance forces are no longer tied.
Secondly, if attacks by the junta’s troops were to stop and the peaceful and boring process of negotiations were to resume, where would those residents of Ukraine, who are now under the authority of a neo-banderite fascist junta, shift most of their attention to? That’s right; it’d switch to the internal problems: the price of food, gasoline, inflation; unemployment; the hryvna’s weakening exchange rate; gangsterism, and etc. etc. Poroshenko will be pretending that he is making decisions because he needs to win the parliamentary elections.
What will Kolomoisky, Lyashko, the battalions of the National Guard and all those others who are interested in kindling the fires of war, do? What are they supposed to do? There is nothing for them to do in such circumstances; therefore, tensions within the junta will increase. Even if Russia and Germany are able to continue to keep Poroshenko from the use of force in the East, sooner or later the abscess inside the junta will burst.
About the “new Transnistria”. This is what the experts scare the population and neophytes with as a proof of the American party and the government’s slogan that “Putin sold out”. The fact is that the phenomenon of Transnistria has only become so because of one factor – the absence of a common border with Russia. Nothing else. Abkhazia and South Ossetia have a common border with Russia which is another matter. Yes, technically they are all unrecognized states. But in reality, I emphasize, in reality Abkhazia and South Ossetia, unlike Transnistria, are under the protection of the Russian army, and no-one in his right mind would dare stick his nose in there..
Therefore, the scenario of a “new Transnistria” in relation to the DPR and LPR is out of the question – the common border with Russia rules out such a scenario. Yes, these regions will have an uncertain status for some time. However, after the bursting of the abscess in Kiev or another scenario the two regions of Novorossia will be joined by the other five that were handed over to Ukraine by the Bolsheviks. And that will be the end of Ukraine in its present form.
In conclusion, about the main question: why did Russia choose this course and not speed up events in Novorossia? The first reason has already been mentioned: it was necessary to give Germany and Europe the arguments required not to allow the US to implement their prepared-in-advance positions at the summits in Brussels and Newport.
Secondly, it is necessary to provide Europe with a calm winter and not to let those Eastern European countries that depend on gas supplies through Ukraine, to freeze. Because, if chaos begins on the territory of the Ruin and the gas pipelines begin to be blown up, Eastern Europe will freeze, and the US will then have very strong arguments with which to put pressure on the EU in regards to Russia’s position in the Ukrainian crisis.
Therefore, the question of uninterrupted gas supplies to Europe in the winter is one of the most important ones. This alone is a reason for the ceasefire, not to mention the welfare of the peaceful inhabitants of Novorossia.
Besides, a cold and hungry winter will bring to their senses those in Ukraine who are now controlled by the junta. The junta will be pushed out after the winter anyway.
Thirdly, the rapid capture of all seven regions of Novorossia would give the US a pretext to build a new iron curtain. Not somewhere in Germany, but right on the border with Russia and in the form of the notorious NATO bases in the Baltic States, Poland, and Romania. At the same time, we would permanently lose the rest of Ukraine, which is unacceptable. That is, any immediate division of Ukraine gives us a victory: so much was captured and so quickly. However, from a strategic and long-term perspective, such a scenario would in the end be our defeat, because we would lose the rest of Ukraine and in addition, would allow the US to take full and complete control over Europe.
***
That’s why we need all of Ukraine, which, similar to Belarus, will be friendly to Russia and join (with the possible exception of the three Western regions) the Eurasian Economic Union. Together we will then form a trade zone with the EU that will unite the entire Eurasian continent from France and Holland to China, Iran and India in a single trade and economic zone.
RE: Media of the junta announce that in the woods near Zaporozhye more than a ton of human remains were found – primarily severed limbs.
Okay now we know why the mobile crematoriums were sent to the east. But no matter whos parts these are, it is an ominous sign. I hate to even think about it.
Dugin is far from the only figure concerned with the approach after the Crimea was handled.
Not getting into the details of this argument, but it reminds me of arguments or discussions out of Russia regarding the Ukraine over the last 23 years. “We need all of the Ukraine.” Yes, but the educational system inside the country has turned perhaps 10% of the country against you into 25%. In a few more years, it will be 35%. The idea that a bad economy will make people who now hate Russia change their minds is far from proven. Perhaps they will just hate Russia more.
One last thing. The idea that “Europe is not happy with the new format of Ukraine’s statehood.” Really? What is the basis for this claim?
Optimistic, but it neglects to consider the fact that the aggression of the Real Evil Empire will never cease. The USA lives to kill, pillage, destroy, bully, intimidate and exploit. The mere existence of independent states like Russia and China, and leaders like Putin who mock Yankee ‘exceptionalism’ drives them potty with rage. The next stage will be the release of the faked MH17 ‘findings’, certain, I would say, to point the finger at Russia and Putin. Then the US financed Fifth Columns inside Russia, already stirring, will be unleashed.
Thanks Saker
Yes, there is always more going on behind the scenes than us armchair warriors can see and hear. Your insightful analysis calms our frayed nerves…
Good news for us… our Russian born Ukraine living cousins have fled and taken up residence in Crimea. Hopefully her grandson will now escape junta conscription.
This article to me looks weak and incoherent. I could critisize it line by line, but don’t have neither space nor time.
Just a suggestion that a fast formation of Novorossia would lead to the “loss of the rest of Ukraine”, while few months of delay but a similar outcome would not, seems ridiculous.
Also, all this “new iron curtain” nonsense shows that the author has no understanding of the old Iron Curtain phenomenon. Hint: USSR confined itself behind the Iron Curtain almost entirely by its own effort, not by the actions of the west.
Not impressed by Yuri Baranchik so far.
How about all of Ukraine except the neo-nazi strongholds in the west? Let them be a thorn in the EU’s side…
First, let me congratulate you for your fine blog.
What is missing in your brainy analyses is the economic side of the conflict.
By example, and I hate to break the bad news, more sanctions are on their way, this time attacking Russia’s public enterprises.
Your rose colored view of this cease fire agreement is outright dangerous. So is Putin continuing using Surkov adviser on this issue. of cause, threw Novorossia under the bus to help avoiding sanctions again Russia is out right noble act of Russian government. They did it even without consult POLL of both Russia and Novorossia. It should be commanded, and I am sure the fighters on the ground, their families and country man are very much appreciate RF’s generosity. Small wonder why Ukraine people dislike their own brother Russia so much. Could selfish, irresponsible, and disrespectful been a factor? I guess one Ukraine is not enough, lets start seeding the bitter seeds now for next one.
Thanks to the team and Saker for this article.
It appears to describe a political boiler the Kiev junta is trapped in. Nowhere for them to retreat to, running out of time and material and men, and no one to rescue them.
So, ‘everything in good time’ is Mr. Baranchik’s conclusion.
What looks like a 180 retreat politically in Minsk is a trap for the junta.
Very interesting . . .
Long term strategic play, cold-blooded tactics, and a game of patience that will win against an impatient foe (the U.S./NATO).
What was nice to read was the lack of histrionics which is effusive in El Murid and Col. Cassad most of the time.
So it sounds like Russia will eventually have a united Ukraine with a few western pieces missing, and a new “border” that will solve the dilemma of Transnistria.
Well, now several here have spoken of this desirability. So, we have an authentic expert intellectual who confirms our wild notion that Putin could act as a Regional Power and protect Mother Russia while dismantling the nazi regime next door, and do a border change in due time.
Bad news yesterday becomes good news today.
More and more Putin has played GO, not chess. It’s quite apparent.
Putin has Sente.
For background on the game:
GO
“Thirdly, the rapid capture of all seven regions of Novorossia would give the US a pretext to build a new iron curtain.”
Like you can avoid it any way. All those action taken by the west regardless what RF did, or did not do tought you nothing!
“That’s why we need all of Ukraine, which, similar to Belarus, will be friendly to Russia and join (with the possible exception of the three Western regions) the Eurasian Economic Union. “
Who is “we”. We the Novorossia said no to stay in Ukraine. Who are you to say no to them. You can read RF poll not to go into the war, you can not read Novorossia POLL for not staying in Ukraine?
China and BRICS will be so impressed with RF/Putin’s ability to play chess. Maybe they are only one of the chess pieces for RF too. As soon as US/West curl their little fingers, RF may running over happily kiss the masters for forgiveness, and threw the whole chess board under buss.
This is utterly disgusting, both you and RF. I dare you to post this, and my previous post regarding seeding the bitter seeds for next Ukraine.
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/85661.html#cutid1
“The junta will be pushed out after the winter anyway.”
Yes, a hard-core Nazi regime will be next. It is either that or Somalian warlords.
————–
For what it is worth, hardly a single comment under that article in vz.ru agreed. Much more typical was:
-“We need a bird and flying cows milk …”
-“Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and others. Remnant already go to the polls, people who had never lived in the Soviet Union, their worldview is based on the history books are written in the money Soros. Most of the young people and the ruling elite absolutely all of these new states to Russia relates extremely negative.”
Anybody has any information about the supposed death of Yarosh?
The only place I saw was here:
https://twitter.com/Alexsligo/status/508724720960012288
My first thought, being a rather simple and ‘nuts and bolts’ man, was Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are they doing? Cease fire and stand down when you are on the cusp of victory? Novorossiya is winning! Don’t stop now!
Then after thinking a bit and going over informations, my second thought was ‘Oh shit, Novorossiya is winning tactically, not strategically. While tactical victories are extremely important they are not the path to victory and freedom in and of themselves.’.
While my time has been quite limited of late I did take the time to read a lot of the comments on the ‘cease fire’ thread. After reading this new thread I understand much better what is going on and why the cease fire, which we knew the orks would never honor and had no intention of honoring. I have also understood several truths from the very beginning of this entire mess back in November ’13.
To expand on a few of the truths, I told my wife after we watched the Yanukovich debacle on Bankhovo Street in Kiev on 01 December that Yanukovich would lose against the putsch. She told me in no uncertain terms that I was certifiably insane. At 02:00 on 26 February we were shoveling sand in to bags as a block post was being hastily assembled.
We both understood from that moment that Krimea and Sevastopol would return to Russia. Russia will NEVER allow ANYONE to occupy Krim and Sevastopol again. Krim/Sevastopol are NOT bargaining chips to use in some grand scheme between V V Putin and Obama or Merkel or Holland or Cameron. Ain’t gonna happen. For all you trolls and nay sayers out there, understand this fact that is engraved in stone.
After Strelkov appeared in Slavyansk in mid April, a fact that was common knowledge, we knew that Novorossiya would be. This, too, is a fact engraved in stone. V V Putin will never betray or bargain away Novorossiya. VVP did have some hard lessons to teach to Novorossiya, the main one being in May and June that he would not overtly intervene in the fighting. I have no doubts that VVP did help Novorossiya armed forces to an extent but the real lesson they needed to learn, and did learn, was that they have to win their freedom themselves, by force of arms themselves.
The hypocrisy of The West screaming at VVP to stop helping Novorossiya is in and of itself silly as in the next breath The West promises more money, more ‘non lethal aid’ and now overt deliveries of ‘modern weapons’ to the orks. We already know that the air worthy Ork air forces have been shot down one and a half times. Merkel and Poland have been delivering airframes to the orks to make up for the loses and this fact is no secret. Both countries have a good amount of equipment left from when SSSR withdrew from Europe and left behind substantial amounts of weaponry. If for no other proof there are many recordings extant of pilots talking to control in English, German and Polish. I won’t even go in to the incredible amounts of equipment and weaponry SSSR left in Orkland when SSSR ceased to exist, on which the orks performed precisely zero maintenance and upkeep and in actual fact the orks sold off a great deal of the more modern equipment while at the same time starving their armed forces of budget money, read stole most of it.
Bottom line, Novorossiya will exist. The war will be long and hard and many more innocents will die at the hands of the orks and, sadly, in the fighting as the Armed Forces of Novorossiya fight to expel the orks from their country. Ukraine is dead. Think of it this way. Ukraine has lost over 11 million citizens since March of this year. That is 25% of the population. The orks have systematically destroyed vast amounts of industry, mines, transportation and infrastructure in their ceaseless bombardments of patently civilian areas. What they have destroyed is 35% of the productive industry that for decades kept ukraine on it’s feet. That is now gone one way or the other. Novorossiya will be rebuilt by the citizens of Novorossiya. For ukraine there is no possibility of recover from this disaster of their own making.
Saker – are the Ukie Army finally getting smart and deciding to go after the oligarch vermin in Kiev? Moscow better not try to stop them. They need to give Porky, Yats, Klitchko and the other billionaire oligarchs frontied justice.
Maybe the Ukrainain Army and NovoRussia can united to clear this vermin from the Ukraine. They need to waterboad Yats and Proky and find out where the gold went.
According to this video – next stop Kiev and the Ukie Army is looking for some payback.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEItEEjN3cg
F Yats, Porky and the other Kiev oligarchs.
The so-called “ceasefire” is even better for Novorossiya than outlined here. It has absolutely no negative effect on the operations of the NAF. The only things what NAF cannot do now is starting a huge offensive. That would look awful now during the ceasefire. But the NAF couldn’t do now a large offensive anyway because the NAF has just done a huge offensive, needs time to empty the cauldrons and is still stretched of the last offensive. Of course nobody assumes that even in the ceasefire there will be no skirmishes somewhere at some points. The only thing what really needs to change now is the reporting.
Eg: Before there was reported an action “Working at the elemination of a cauldron x NAF eleminated y pieces of Ukie equipment and z Ukie fighters.” Now, during the ceasefire, there will be reports more like “Defending peaceful Novorussia town x against an aggressive Ukie attack NAF eleminated y pieces of Ukie equipment and z Ukie fighters.”
Have a look at the interbrigade report of Sep 6:
http://polynkov.livejournal.com/986619.html
My favorite line in it:
Ждановка — также бои, уничтожена РЛС (РК «Зоопарк 1 М») и 60 карателей.
“Zhdanovka – also fighting, destroyed 1 radar (RK “Zoopark 1M”) and 60 punishers.”
And then look at the interbrigade report of Sep 7:
http://polynkov.livejournal.com/986930.html
My favorite lines in it:
На луганском направлении линия фронта практически неизменна: из некоторых н.п. каратели ушли добровольно, выравнивая линию фронта. … Славяносербский район: укровермахт оставил н.п.Приветное, Паньково, Стукалова Балка, Светлое, Обозное и Христово.
At the direction of Luhansk the front line was virtually unchanged: the punishers left certain villages voluntarily, likely in a move to shorten the front. … Slavyanoserbsky district: ukrovermaht left the villages Privetnoe, Pankovo, Stukalova Balka, Svetloe, Oboznoe, and Khristovo.
That’s a higly strategic area just south of the Lugansk powerplant in Schaste that the Ukies just left “voluntarily.”
Kolomoisky media meanwhile complains that Ukies can not collect more than 50 bodies of killed Ukie fighters in that area on Friday, saying the area is now occupied by Donbass militia (while on Saturday it was said only between 10 and 35 Ukies were killed there). …
http://www.unian.ua/politics/960119-iz-kontrolovanoji-boyovikami-teritoriji-dosi-ne-mojut-zabrati-ponad-50-til-biytsiv-ato-zmi.html
http://rt.com/business/185504-gazprom-sanctions-eu-ban/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-07/europe-goes-all-will-sanction-rosneft-gazprom-neft-and-transneft
seems to contradict the line 4 -6 “the EU (Germany and the countries of the Old Europe) refused to impose new sanctions against Russia under pressure from the United States and its most loyal vassal states ….Thus, the EU chose not to escalate the conflict with Russia on the eve of winter.”
I’m confused!maybe missing something! Just weird.
Zero Hedge comes to a diametrically opposed conclusion regarding what happened at the NATO summit in Wales:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-07/europe-goes-all-will-sanction-rosneft-gazprom-neft-and-transneft
If Zero Hedge is right, then Yuri Baranchik is wrong and Alexander Dugin,
well, is sort of vindicated. It also
means that the gas weapon is a blunt one, or that the Western leaders regard it as such.
It seems there are two Alexander Dugins:
On the one hand, there is the day-to-day Alexander Dugin. This guy does seem to be a drama queen, a bad tactician who easily looses his nerves and is prone to panic attacks. The same might be said about his sidekick Mark Sloboda.
On the other hand, there is the more
deep-thinking Alexander Dugin who explains the conflict in spiritual terms. It’s Western, post-modern Satanism against Russia the Guardian of Christianity. The West stands for extreme liberalism, the concept of “Freedom from everything”, which ultimately constitutes a cult of de-humanization and death. Putin’s Russia stands for the concept of “Freedom to be yourself”, which is the freedom to live according to your own traditions and values. The West cannot let Russia live because extreme liberalism is a totalitarian ideology. As such it categorically requires any civilisational alternative to be eradicated. That’s why the West is behaving so ferociously. It’s a struggle of life and death, no less.
Eurasian Union will start from Portugal, not France.
It seems that some “gloom and doom” voices from Russia re: situation in Donbass are a play according to Sun Tzu’s rule “appear weak when you are strong” and to confuse the enemy. It’s been done by the Resistance a number of times already.
“The crisis in the Ukraine is the crisis of the Ukraine as a state and consequently as a geopolitical entity. As illustrated above, in the 23 years since its independence the Ukrainian state has never really functioned properly in many key areas of what a state should be. While the world hosts a long list of quasi-states, failing states, and failed states, because of its sheer geopolitical location the Ukraine cannot survive intact in the face of mounting international tensions. The crisis is also a product of an accumulation and stratification of rivalry and grievances between the US and Russia, as it appear connected to a series of other flashpoints in the Middle East, in the Caucasus, and in Central Asia.”
I would like to signal this excellent analysis of the Ukrainian crisis already published in May on a blog of the London School of Economics, at this URL: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/eurocrisispress/2014/05/12/the-irreversible-crisis-of-the-ukrainian-experiment/
Admittedly long, but in my view worth the effort.
Excellent analysis, I fully agree. Europe should beware of the fall back option for the English and US chicken hawks: Mobilise the Southern sector of the heartland fault line against Western Europe, sending the ISIS killers nurished carefully by US/Saudi/Netanyahu to spread terror in Europe.
I’d like to hear more about how the acuatual vested interests in Russia are balanced and arranged in this. That’s where a lot of the fear that national interests won’t be best served comes from. Cooperative Ozero, other oligarchs/crime bosses, their hangers on like the clergy look out for #1. There is no divide between them and the Siloviki. There are relatively patriotic oligarcho-crime bosses and relatively westernist oligarcho-crime bosses.
Most of the non-russian post-soviet people I’ve met miss the soviet nation, the days when people didn’t huddle so much in their little ethno/religious groups. That is a huge bit of political capital that it would be a shame to disregard.
The USA is all about chaos, divide and conquer. any degree to which they succeed in that is a success. Meanwhile, the oligarchy was created by Yeltsin’s amerian advisors with their shock therapy to serve as the local elite with interests in line with wall street. That may not be *precisely* how it turned out but their continued existence is reason for worry.
Daft.
Baranchik should be better informed. At the moment, the EU has NOT decided against new sanctions. Also, the Russian government will make the EU pay still more than they are already paying due to the food embargo if they set up new financial sanctions. Medvedev has today warned that Russia may close its airspace to Europe. Moreover, we do not know if Russia’s development of industrial trade relations in Asia and Latin America has advance to the point where they would be able to devise a method of shutting down some of the EU’s industrial trade with them. To talk, as Baranchik does at the end of his article, of needing an intact Ukraine for the union of the EU and the Eurasian union seems to miss the point of Russia’s now revising its military doctrine. And the “main question” – “Why did Russia […] not speed up events in Novorussia? – Ukraine has been testing the Putin doctrine of not intervening in other states’ affairs. Putin has repeatedly referred to the Ukraine crisis as an internal affair. Germany and Europe need no further arguments than the vetoes threatened by certain Eastern European countries. But, as the Russian government thinks, the EU hasn’t a clue how to solve the situation.
From the heights of the (grand)chess masters’game prespective this move-“the Peacemaker”-may seem like the logical one but…
When one spends too much time “up there” one it seems starts to live in a different reality…In the real world-where the majority of us reside this “masters’ move” is WRONG!To the people of Donbass,of Russia to “us” who support this genuine peoples’ fight for freedom and justice this “master move” looks and feels more like aBETRAYAL..like a “elitist” game…Humans are not chess figures or some sort of automats-yestarday the nazis killed us and destroyed our homes today we hug and kiss each other and live happily together drinking coke with flowers in our hair…
To: Mulga Mumblebrain
“Optimistic, but it neglects to consider the fact that the aggression of the
Real Evil Empire will never cease.”
I don’t see what that has got to do with the posted analysis. Did anyone think
that this ‘war-game’ was going to kaput the USA? You don’t think the
aggression is going to cease? The war ain’t over mate. UE is just a battle.
“The next stage will be the release of the faked MH17 ‘findings’, certain, I
would say, to point the finger at Russia and Putin”
I would be very surprised if this amounts to anything. The shock value is
gone. If this tragedy could be laid at the feet of RU or the militia it wold
have been done long ago while there was still inertia. This is dead stuff.
It’s all damage control now. Maybe set Kolomoski up as the fall guy. I don’t
think RU has shown its hand here at all. The West is very reticent to come out
with the findings because RU may trump their BS with facts.
“Then the US financed Fifth Columns inside Russia, already stirring, will be
unleashed”
Reading the RU press one finds, from time to time, various new laws that have
been enacted over the past year that will make the 5th column work a deadly
occupation. The new frumpy US ambassador to RU is just a hamstrung hamster. RU
knows how to play this game. I think they helped invent it.
I think your gloom and doom is misplaced unless of course it is your purpose
to seed gloom and doom. :)
If I understand you correctly, Saker, then I must disagree with your assessment that Europe will use the truce as an excuse for backing off from new sanctions. Apparently an EU document was leaked over the weekend that indicates that Europe will implement a new set of sanctions, this time targetting Rosneft, Gazprom Neft, and Transneft. Medvedev has indicated that should Europe do this, Russia will be forced to respond by perhaps preventing flyovers of Russian territory by European airlines, thus sending several of them into bankruptcy.
Also, the Cassad site has done an analysis of the so-called ‘truce’ and what is behind it – and it is apparently not for the good of the Novorossiyans, but another step in a fight between oligarch clans – both Russian and Ukrainian. See here:
https://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/85661.html
The entire fucking world is corrupt to the core, and the true interests of the people are consistently ignored by their rulers.
I would be very interested in your comments on this analysis.
The only ones who rally need a ceasefire are KFK/JRF, because they’ve been badly beaten. They need this time to regroup, reinforce and reverse the tide [or so they think]. This paper will be used the way the KFK/JRF have treated all decency; on a toilet.
Talk at the table, kill in the field.
Those who’ve died during this ‘ceasefire’ couldn’t care less about papers and words; their eyes are closed and their last breath has long since passed.
RIP
I wonder how much of the internal differences in Russia over the sort of help Russia should provide Novorossia is intentionally to confuse the fascists/ziofascists of the west?
Interesting piece. The basics of which I think Saker and many of us here have concluded before about why Russia occupying Ukrainian territory would be harmful in the long run (besides being what the ZPC/NWO wants to happen).
I think the author is too optimistic regarding Europe, or the current leaders there, though. They are obviously at odds with the European people and their interests (as all “western” leaders are), but I don’t think there is much difference between them and the rest of the ZPC/NWO in viewing the rising independent economic block lead by China and Russia as a rival, not a potential partner. While I think that there is some division among the European capitalist oligarchs, and Russia working with the dissenters will pay off eventually, I don’t think there is any current division in the ZPC/NWO between “Europe” and the “USA”. At that level they pretty much are all on the same world domination program. Which means irregardless of being Euro, Ami, or Japanese, for that matter, they want to destroy Russia, as a necessary step in preventing a multipolar world replacing the current ZPC/NWO nightmare.
The European oligarchs are playing the “good cop” role in the “good cop/bad cop” playbook, which is pretty much how the ZPC/NWO does strategy on everything in politics, media and “business”. They play up these false differences of their “players”, but there is no real differences between the “Netanyahus” and the “Peres”.
вот так
I hope the analysis in the article is correct.But I just believe as an American, that Russians underestimate the pure vindictiveness of the US government.They really hate to lose.And when forced to,never forgive or forget.They have been tormenting Cuba since 1960 and North Korea since 1953.Both those situations could have been settled constructively years ago.But they refuse to even negotiate unless forced to.And then only for something important and only temporarily.I don’t see them giving up on the Cold War 2.0,and seizing Ukraine for NATO.And it looks like the junta is moving more troops for a attack.We will have to truly beat them to stop them this time (a good thing in itself).I still think bringing down the junta, with aid maybe,but by Ukrainian hands.Has to be done for Novorossii to be free.As someone I believe posted from “the art of war” building a pile of bleached bones large enough to frighten the enemy into never attacking again.
“Yes, there is always more going on behind the scenes than us armchair warriors
can see and hear. ” -Babushka
Well said. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye or the brain.
“In conclusion, about the main question: why did Russia choose this course and not
speed up events in Novorossia?”
Speeding up events is what the other side had hoped for. Slowing down events
showed the world to a large extent:
a. how impotent NATO and the EU really is. b. how bankrupt is the polish, german
and french et al leadership. c. how insane the ussa has become.
None of this has been lost on the rest of the world.
1. “The first reason has already been mentioned: it was necessary to give Germany
and Europe the arguments required…”
This has always been the Russian position. Right from the start. It is consistent.
RU would like to include the EU in the game. The EU, still being blackmailed by
the US, may wakeup before winter sets in. They are beginning to see the idiocy of
UE policy and politics.
2. “Secondly, it is necessary to provide Europe with a calm winter and not to let
those Eastern European countries that depend on gas supplies through Ukraine, to
freeze.”
This is a no-brainer. Nothing and no one is served by shutting off the gas. This
is power politics in the Ami style and is most often advanced by them. It is total
BS in today’s world. The biggest fear is sabotage of the pipelines by UE elements.
But then the EU supposedly has a ‘partner’ in the UE, so why should that be a
worry. LMAO.
“Therefore, the question of uninterrupted gas supplies to Europe in the winter is
one of the most important ones. This alone is a reason for the ceasefire, not to
mention the welfare of the peaceful inhabitants of Novorossia.”
The ceasefire is probably a bad joke. Nazi elements have, reportedly said they are
not bound by it because they are not recognized as valid organizations by Kiew. I
don’t think that the Kolomosky types are going to back off. There is nothing in it
for them. The only one that may benefit is Porky because I think he was under some
pressure by the EU to do something. But he is not running the country so this will
fall on its face with both sides pointing the finger at the other for its failure.
There are more holes in it then in an Emmentaler cheese. If it allows some relief
for the embattled civilians it could be deemed as successful. The fighting is not
going to stop. In fact, it hasn’t.
Besides, a cold and hungry winter will bring to their senses those in Ukraine who
are now controlled by the junta. The junta will be pushed out after the winter
anyway.
3. “Thirdly, the rapid capture of all seven regions of Novorossia would give the
US a pretext to build a new iron curtain.”
Is this even a consideration ie ‘rapid capture’? Why would RU need UE? RU seems to
have enough to do w/o annexing UE with all of its untold problems, misery, anti-RU
sentiment etc. Who needs it? UE is a pawn in this game as is Syria, Libya, Iraq,
etc.
Actually you miss the point. Actually there is a surplus of carbon energy in Europe, due of the crysis. This is why many powerplants are closing: solar power and wind power are growing, so it is not a real fear. The very point is that what you call “the OLD Europe” has clear that Europe is a continent which ends to Urals, so it is pointless to do a remake of the cold war. For the USA, they are used to think europe finishes with Bielorussia, and then starts “sort of Asia”. But this is not.
Please remember that both Putin and Angela Merkel were living in Berlin, both speak Russian and German, and so on. Since the ÖstPolitik Germany is aware of Russia and the same for Italy, by example. Everybody is aware of it, and it is a matter of history: actually part of the Kremlin was designed by an italian architect, which proofs relations are VERY old. It is not only by now, or because ther is the gas: it started 1000 years ago with the Venice Republic.
Of course, this will NOT prevent the USA to attack Russia. For the sake of history, since of Napoleon, and Hitler too, every over-pumped personality will try to attack russia. It is sort of a law of physics: whoever overestimates his strength , is going to attack Russia. Nothing new. Of course, I am sorry for this sad destiny Russia has (to be a perpetual dismantler of assholes) , because it costs lot of human lifes, but as we say in Italy, you can’t escape your destiny.
Every asshole which is overestimating its military strength will attack you: Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini, and now Obama. Sad (for you) , but nothing new.
Also, we all know how it will end, so let’s grab some popcorn and sit on the sofa.
Alien Tech 03:51
The waste that I have seen in the videos looks like remains from normal surgical procedures. Some of the material had documents attached (patient id?). The foot of one amputated leg showed evidence of poor circulation, typically seen in patients who smoke heavily. Some of the legs showed evidence for careful mid thigh amputation, with evidence for preserving a muscle/skin flap for the stump. I saw no evidence for massive trauma that would occur in combat.
In sum, this evidence points to normal unhurried surgical operation as the source of the material.
Normally such medical material would be incinerated. This costs a great deal more than digging a hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere. I suspect someone with a contract for disposal of waste from a (private?) hospital did the disposal on the cheap to make a quick buck.
Fun to read this article. It makes sense! Hopefully it is not too optimistic but what will happen.
I will abstain from adding any dark thoughts but rejoice with the author in a possibly better future!
Well, really encouraging, and if so, and I guess the author has more data than I to believe it, I will be very glad and I´ll open a bottle of champagne.
However, I still do not understand what “former President Kuchma” painted in all this issue of the ceasefire.
Someone could explain it?
Not just to us, who are safe at home, but all should be well explained to the people who are fighting in the militia to understand that they are not being betrayed or give them for a ride. Otherwise, even reaching a favorable peace agreement, there may be sections of the militia suitable for radicalization and refuse to abandon the armed struggle on the ground that they did not offset the high price paid for the result.
Also to prevent opportunistics going to take advantage of their fatigue and desperation.
Someone, please, must go there and explain it directly to the people.
I do not know if this leaked document is part of the infowar but it claims EU is going all in
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-07/europe-goes-all-will-sanction-rosneft-gazprom-neft-and-transneft
I have read the article by Yuri Baranchik. Bssically it is a defence of Russian interests with respect to the EU & US. It has little to say about the interests of Novorossiia which must remain in effect subordinated to those of Russia.
If you were fighting in Novorossiia agst the Kiev junta’s fascist bravos, you might have a different opinion, of course. And you would also most certainly object to the _actual terms of agreement_ signed at Minsk, which Mr Baranchik conveniently does not mention. These terms, published in Russian and English, on Slavyangrad.com amount to the surrender of Novorossiia to Kiev suzerainty.
The two people who signed the socalled protocol, Mssrs Zakharchenko and Plotnitskii, could easily have asked for time to refer the document back to their governements. They did not do so, perhaps because rushed by the Russians to sign to head off more sanctions (which may come anyway today). The hasty signature of this document of surrender in effect calls into question the judgement and/or loyalty of Mssrs Zakharchenko and Plotnitskii.
Mr Barnachik presents the Russian view of things based on a scenario which may or may not occur. But the war goes on in Novorossiia and the signature of the socalled protocol has sown anger and confusion amongst the people on the front lines fighting agst the Kiev fascists.
http://www.elespiadigital.com/index.php/noticias/historico-de-noticias/6764-novorrosia-denuncia-que-las-fuerzas-de-kiev-incumplen-la-tregua-y-vuelve-a-haber-combates-en-mariupol
Attention to the steel issue ( Pintchuk/Kuchma ), Liashko….)
@Everybody:
Why no one is talking about Crimea, including Empire, Ukraine, EU, NATO or anyone on this blog?
What happened to IMF loan? Has the funding started yet? If not, how is Ukraine surviving, being bankrupt?
How is Ukraine paying their Gas debt to Russia. No news on MSM? No one is discussing on this blog?
Everyone is giving their opinions, but very few are asking questions?
Very little reflection is going, based only on the War on Ukraine. Alpha male and Theta female are discussed for relevancy.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Marvelous. Absolutely marvelous.
Marvelous. Absolutely marvelous.
Everyone think that all the American and EU Politicians are dumb?
Both Obama and Kerry are so dumb?
Even Saker has mentioned as such several times, when I directly questioned him.
His answer was their are not like Kissinger, Baker and so forth….
Good way to under estimate your opponents.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Paul II, great questions.
Mulga Mumblebrain, indeed- this analysis is gives a great insight into the Art of the Matador (no offence to raging bulls intended in comparing them to the Empire of the West intended).
Unfortunately, at this moment the version given by “Putin-bashers” appears more plausible and logic than the one given by “Putin-groupies”.
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/85661.html
I wish to suggest a sort of compromise here.
There are already 6,000 too many innocent civilians assassinated in Donbass at the hand of the Uruk-kai(nian)s, and they keep on being massacred daily. Why don’t you just suspend your damned chess playing for a little while, just the time to clean completely Lugansk and Donetsk oblasts from the rats and secure their borders, and only then resume your excellent negotiations with the devil.
In such way, while you play people in the Donbass can live to narrate your strategic mastership.
Then, we’ll see if the rats in the rest of the Country will start the deratization of themselves or if the few sane people left east of Dniepr will be able to get rid of them on their own.
Remembering Odessa, I have a few doubts!
Regarding 1000 kg of body parts found in the woods
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRnVpMnmzUs
Described here (Russian)
http://www.ridus.ru/news/166855?page=2
It needs to be kept in mind Ukraine has been one of the world centers of organ harvesting / organ trafficking for a few years.
http://tinyurl.com/mnrbv9f
Also, pay attention to the fact that Kiev has so far refused to present a list of prisoners for the exchange.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/748528
Since Kiev’s depravity is beyond what most innocent souls here can imagine, I would not be surprised if they are still deciding how much they can get for the organs of the POWs they still have, if they actually have any left.
In other news, Katie Foley and Alex Israel are definitely the same person. Look very much alike and SOUND exactly the same. It is always possible to tell oneself that two people can look so much alike and have the same voice and be part of two very controversial events where suspicions of fakery have existed since day one — and still have nothing to do with each other. I do belive they are the same person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um9R9cKBCcE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ifYFz4560
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mBnzSNwB0
Paul II’s observations are more than reasonable. On the popularity stakes, for example, there’s tactical and strategic time scales: 10% then but 25% now etc. With the massive junta losses, will the junta suffer or will it be blamed just on Vlad? I may have been, say, while not ethnically a Russian, a largely pro-Russian Ukrainian, but the bloodshed may have tipped me the other way, and so I land up de facto supporting Choco Porky and his ilk. Illogical perhaps Painful certainly. But a human reaction if, say, young men I saw grow up in my part of town died in that wood near Zaporozhye. Porky’s to blame. Sure. But still… the tragedy is a heavy burden.
Saker,
The approach described here sounds reasonable (gee, imagine that!), judicious, well-thought out and certainly far more to my own liking than some of what I’d read last night from Colonel Cassad. It looks to me that Russia is taking a far longer-term view, and it will in fact take more time to bring us down (gently or otherwise) and supplant our entire model, but we’ve hardly broken our stride: we just keep whacking away everywhere. What we’re watching unfold, across the entire globe, really boils down to whether intelligence, conviction and savvy can be a match for greed, short-sightedness and total comfort with wanton destruction. It’s like playing chess with an angry four-year-old who may grasp a couple of the rules but would rather plop the pieces wherever he wants and then keep shaking the board. Also, I just have a hunch that the factors that will really determine the outcome of this game are unfolding in other rooms of of the house; right now Scotland, India and Brazil come to mind, while China can be expected to ride whatever waves are in her best interest (sorry for that mixed metaphor, btw).
But what now, with these sanctions we’ve apparently strong-armed the Eurobureaucrats into making?
Dear Saker, these are compelling and reasonable arguments, but what about these new sanctions being announced?
“New EU Sanctions to Include Russian State Oil Companies With $27-Bln Turnover: Report”
http://en.ria.ru/business/20140908/192741506/New-EU-Sanctions-to-Include-Russian-State-Oil-Companies-With.html
Jewish Lobby declares academic boycott of Qatar
And, I quote:
“On September 3, 2014, Stewart Ain reported at the New York Jewish week that pro-Israel Jewish group Simon Wiesenthal Center has called upon the Cornell University to close down its medical campus in Qatar for latter’s support for the Gaza ruling Palestinian resistance group Hamas.
The Cornell University, member of America’s elite Ivy League is a Jewish-controlled educational institution. Cornell Chairman David Skorton, vice-president for University relations, Joel Malina and Provost Kent Fuchs are all Zionist Jews.
Rabbi Marvin Heir, the founder-dean of SWC has called Cornell’s co-operation with Qatar “outrageous”.
“What Cornell should say is, ‘We repudiate anyone who funds a terrorist organization,” said the Rabbi.
Abraham Foxman, national director of Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a criminal arm of Israel lobby has also demanded that Cornell University re-evaluate its educational co-operation with Qatar which is exposed to be an enemy of Jews and Israel.
The University management has told these paranoid American Jews who are more loyal to Israel than United States that Qatar is a great strategic ally – and have pumped tens of billions of dollar in America’s arms industry.
Some political analyst have come to the conclusion that Cornell partnership with Qatar government not only generates tens of millions of dollars in funds for the University but also influence Qatar government in its policy toward Iran and Syria.
Last month, the Zionist regime gave Jewish Lobby marching orders to start a campaign to stop Qatar hosting 2022 FIFA World Cup.
Cornell University opened its medical campus in Qatar in 2002 with the help of $750 million grant from Qatar government.
Last month, Qatari foreign minister Khalid bin Mohammad al-Attiah rejected Jewish media’s accusation saying that his country doesn’t support armed resistance against Israel. He reminded the accusers that Qatar’s ruler Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad ak-Thani played a major role in brokering a ceasefire between Mahmoud Abbas and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Israel’s problem with Qatar is that Hamas political Guru Khaled Meshaal lives in Doha and the ruling Thani family funds his living and security expenses. Qatar is also home to the pro-Zionist Al-Jazeera, but dared to criticize Israel and supported Mahmoud Abbas during the current Israeli war on Gaza Strip. Furthermore, Dr. Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the “Jew-hating” Muslim Brotherhood cleric, also lives in Doha”
Best
For the summit to work, someone from the Russian leadership would need to be in Donbass representing Putin and keeping contact with the Novorossiyan leadership. I suspect the person was Dmitry Rogozin, Deputy Prime Minister of Russia. He was opening the International Exhibition on Hydroaviation GYDROAVIASALON-2014 in Gelendzhik near Sochi by the Black Sea at about the same time. No one would have noticed a stop-over in Lugansk. The likely place for the meeting is Krasonodon where the NAF headquarters is located.
This could explain this oddity: a video of what clearly are Russian Federation regular troops leaving Lugansk territory on the evening of September 3rd. This is the first proof of Russian troops operating inside former Ukraine. Given the date, it does not however prove that Russia is involved in the war or is a party to it.
The column contains the following: one BTR-80 with typical “Armed Men in Green” on top, two T-72BM main battle tanks, three Strela-10 surface-to-air missile systems, eleven MT-LB armored personel carriers with consecutive numbers 779, 782, 783, 784, 785, 790, 791, 792, 797 and two more whose numbers cannot be seen, over ten trucks, most of them towing D-30 howitzers. The coordinates and time are given by the dashcam video, the spot is three kilometers north of the border town on Donetsk in Russia, on a forested road.
Another huge armored column of 14 T-72 main battle tanks and some 70 other armored vehicles claimed to be Russian was seen from a trolleybus in Krasnodon, heading east.
Did these troops take part in the battles? It is possible the Russian troops were there just to protect some important strategic target. I suspect this target to be Putin’s representative sent for the Minsk talks. Quite likely this person is Dmitry Rogozin. Would the number of tanks be an overkill? After the complications during his last visit to Transnistria he said he would be flying a Tu-160 bomber on his next trip west.
Is in not amazing that MSM now has such critical articles:
The Mess Obama Made on the Way to the So-Called Ceasefire in Ukraine
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mess-obama-made-way-called-094500994.html
Stephen Colbert: Some Good Humor and Obama’s Taupe Suit (ISIS):
Kevin Spacey and Stephen Colbert Teach Obama How to Be an Effective President
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Propaganda rticle.EU is going ahead in full force with sanctions level 3 today.And Medvedev is already counter acting:
http://news.yahoo.com/eu-unveil-russia-sanctions-ukraine-truce-teeters-092616799.html
If new EU sanctions hit energy sector, Russia may close airspace – Medvedev
http://rt.com/business/185924-sanctions-eu-oil-airspace-medvedev/
I view it as a total loss, its ridiculous, to snatch defeat from victory.
It is downright Shameful and disgusting.
It makes me mad.
Moral” Interventions In Syria And Ukraine
When one reads the incredibly vague ceasefire agreement for Ukraine (in Russian, various English versions) it is immediately clear that this can not and will not hold. Russia had pressed for the ceasefire, despite battle advantage of the Novorossiya forces it supports, to avoid a further round of sanctions from the EU and in the hope that some of the warmongers in the “west” might come to their senses and listen to sane people. The Ukrainian president needed the ceasefire because his forces were defeated and, without reorganisation, would not have been able to defend against any further onslaught.
As soon as the forces on both sides have reorganized the battle will continue beyond the small skirmishes that are already taking place today. Neither side has full control over the various groups involved in the fighting and any flare up can immediately escalate.
Meanwhile NATO continues a increase its forces in East Europe for “troop training” and in the black sea. Military people in Moscow will certainly interpret this NATO build up as the threat that it is meant to be.
It was the “west” that provoked the war in Ukraine by organizing a coup against the democratically elected government. It is also the “west” that created the civil war in Syria. There the “west” and its various Arab poodles feed the war in Syria through money, weapons and substantial propaganda for the cause of the Jihadis fighting the Syrian government. It now wants to fight the Syrian government as well as the head choppers of ISIS by supporting the FSA organ eaters who are allied with the 9/11 plane hijackers of Nusra and Al Qaeda. That is seen as morally good even though no “western” country has any case for an involvement in Syria except for some very vaguely defined “interests”.
Russia has an very important security interest in Ukraine. It is its immediate neighbor and the cradle of the Rus civilization. Several large attacks on Russia, by Napoleon as well as Hitler, used the plains of Ukraine as their concentration area and for their marches on Moscow. Many of the forces of the Ukrainian government now fighting against their Russia affine compatriots in the east are outright Nazis. 70 years ago over 20 million Russian lost their life to defeat that ideology.
Why is it seen as morally wrong when Russia, with much more immediate interest, is helping forces in Ukraine when similar intervention by the “west”, much less, if at all justified, is depicted as morally right?
The sole answer one can get to that question is that whatever “we” do, no matter what, is right and whatever those oppose to what “we” do do is automatically wrong. That position is the recipe for much bigger conflicts than the ones we currently sees.
moon of ala
I’d add that on the background of the “truce”, Surkov arrived in Kiev to meet Poroshenko. Such a meeting was to be expected, because sooner or later “expert advice” and behind-the-scenes romp had to lead to some more formal meetings, although this time, the fact of the meeting became known from scraps of leaked information. Of course, currently there are no data about what was discussed between Surkov and Poroshenko.
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/
Surrendering to kiev:
The current leadership of the Donetsk and Lugansk People Republics issued a joint statement on the fictitious ceasefire agreed upon on September 5. The relevant parts of the statements are merely these:
“Supporting the initiative of President Putin … the proof of our attention to the initiative of Vladimir Putin … [but] the fact is that Ukraine turned these negotiations into farce and a mere formality, thus discarding any responsibility for violating [the ceasefire] … We [however] remain faithful to the obligations, which we have thereby taken [upon ourselves] …”
I wonder what would Socrates or Aristotle think about the meaning of such leadership. Of course, it is just a rhetorical question. For I know the answer to this one.
https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_17175%2Fdc635c17c8cd9d6cb7
Espina, Barn Owl and (I’m guessing) mingulay29,
I’m no expert on this but it seems to me that political independence from the AZ Empire is only a part of what we all need: technically a whole lot of places have that but, uh, so what? They’re still basically colonies, just not officially so. James over at http://winterpatriot.com/ has argued quite effectively for some time now that the real way to become truly independent of the Empire is to cut the financial strings of the danged central banking system to which we are bound (you wouldn’t believe the private ownership/London connections of banks everywhere, even in the Middle East) — and that the way to do this is to have independent, *state-owned* central banks. I.e., not a penny gets funneled to London, which of course frees up not just the money, but how each state can then use it if no interest is charged. *Big* difference, imo. So you might want to head on over there and poke around, bc he sure knows a lot about this stuff, and I sure don’t! ;~) I do think it makes a lot of sense though: who really needs the banksters? If a state could decide all by itself what it wanted to invest in, a whole lot more could be done. And both of your states (see what I did there?) are of a reasonable-enough size to truly control what gets done by the people you elect. Just a thought… and yeah, I’m still totally excited for you.
Looking back, I think NR patriots misread some of the fulsome language coming out of Russia around the time of the annexation of Crimea. They jumped the gun, and are now an inconvenience to the Russian Establishment.
Additionally, the NR resistance has produced some genuine heroes, and at least one leader-hero. There is absolutely nothing modern political elites despise more than genuine heroes. I’m sure many in the Russian Establishment were delighting when Strelkov was brought down. For others, it was the elimination of a ‘loose cannon.’
I don’t think the NATO flap is a real consideration. Russians are good at numbers and numerical analysis, and I’m sure the intelligence agencies and the General Staff are well aware of the military realities in every NATO country. All of the NATO countries, including the U.S., are economically hollowed out. All the major NATO countries, including the U.S., are cutting armed forces. The only real NATO threat to Russia is the nuclear capability of the U.S.
After all, every military base of every NATO country is a NATO base, so what difference does it make if a few more are built? Where will the 500,000 to 1,000,000 soldiers (and all their equipment and support) come from to fill those bases? Not from the U.S., the U.K., France or Germany.
Let’s say NR had not seceded from Ukraine, and that Ukraine had subsequently joined NATO. I really doubt Russia would have gone to war over that.
So although this crises was entirely generated by the U.S. and the E.U., and the NR resistance is admired and pulls at the heart strings of many Russians, my opinion is that the NR is mostly on its own and will be sacrificed if it becomes too inconvenient to Russia. This ‘cease fire’ agreement is proof to me that the puppets are in place to stab the fighting forces in the back. The agreement certainly is no ‘victory.’ It is an indication of which way the wind is blowing.
I see it as somewhat delusional that “Winter” is going to cause some mass revolt and push the Kiev govenment out.Winter will be a lot toughte on the parts of Novorrossia with lots of destroyed homes and infrastructure.
Even if it winter does manage to get the Kiev government flushed out, it will simply be replaced by a similar government. The elimination of the radical extremist ultra-nationalist neonazis etc will NOT be performed by some spontaneous popular revolt caused by “winter”. If anything, it will just make people more resigned and submissive. You need an effective and commited army to eliminate those groups.
Therefore, the notion that “all of Ukraine” can somehow be brought on board to friendly relations with Russia is also delusional.
The best possible scenario is a full Novorussia with all its seven regions, if at all possible.
The new “iron curtain” will be there at the dividing line no matter what.
Having the Russophobic Western provinces as part of a new Ukraine that can be “friendly to Russia” is impossible.
Latest rant on the Novorossiya conflict and Scotch Independence
It’s SHOWTIME!
http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/09/08/its-showtime/
RE
Nora, I have left a response on the Merton quote at the previous long thread (still being moderated).
Mohamed, we certainly have paid attention to Crimea in past comments, even while it was being accepted into the Russian Federation, thanks very much to this blog and to comments, so I do not understand your insistence that no-one is paying attention to it. What is your point on that?
I would like to take us back in time to Putin’s editorial in the NYT early in the crisis, to make a point I think is being overlooked. While I am as heartily sick of the ‘exceptionalism’ being claimed by the US government, within that editorial I find, (as I did with Ahmedinejab’s letter to Bush, by the way) a common thrust towards the idealism on which this country, the United States of America, came into being.
It is not very different for there to be a similar democratic idealism now within Russia which in itself without any political ramifications or obfuscations, is exceptional. Of course, Russia will pursue these ideals in their own way, and in their own interest. But just to say that the ideals are hokum and because they are western they are corrupt is wrong.
I became a citizen of this country because of this history, and I will freely admit that often we don’t live up to those ideals, particularly now. But Putin’s editorial slammed the present government and oligarchical masters precisely because they were going against the precepts on which this country was founded. Precepts it must go back to – at least as far back as FDR – in order to heal itself.
We don’t have to re-invent the wheel; it has already been invented. And that is what admirers of Putin who are Americans see in his approach. He told us from the start of this crisis that we already invented the wheel of democracy; we just have forgotten our heritage.
Sad to see they realized too late that Leonid Kuchma’s signature is no obligation to Ukie gov, or military, let alone paramilitaries…
Or they DID realize it in Minsk, but had to wait for the outcome of such an agreement.
In any event, breaking the agreement by Ukies was expected, hope NAF is not surprised.
The ‘ceasefire’ document certainly has to be understood from the perspective of large geopolitcal considerations. But – much in this conflict has been designed to work at a very local level, i.e., Russia, Ukraine, Novorossiya. From the localized perspective, we have the appearance of a ‘sell-out to the oligarchs’ by the Russian Federation that probably resonates somewhat in Novorossiya. But! This sets up the next economic/political/military stage of the conflict, which may be focused on a state capitalist/socialist/communist future for Novorossiya (also to include the other oblasts). At least such is an interpretation derived from Syncretic Studies. And – the Russian Federation will be less and less liable to the ‘Russian invasion’ accusation, as the conflict moves away from the borders and explicit humanitarian, political and economic cooperation increases.
Maybe we can expect to see the rise of a genuine left-wing political movement in Novorossiya that will resonate in Kharkiv, Odessa, Berlin, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Oakland, Chicago, Beijing, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicarauga, Africa.
Agree with Anonymous @ 08 September, 2014 08:40: The U.S. will never relent until forced to. In the one example in recent times, Vietnam, the U.S. under Bush II (not the brightest) talked as if it were a victory (!), and now under Obama is trying to cozy up to it against China: If you really can’t beat them, join them ! Unless you can, the Empire will never give up.
The European Union is proceeding with new and harsher sanctions against Russia… today. I mean, time to burn bridges with the Anglo Mafia: destroy the nazi junta
American Kulak,
I am just so danged curious to learn more about all that secretly-funded think tank business — could you maybe please write it up and either post it in a couple of comments or just send it off to Saker and ask if he’ll run it? I mean, I’m truly salivating-ly curious… and I’m sure I’m not the only one! ;~)
We absolutely need to know more about this. So pleeeeeeease???
Pretty please? :~)
Hi Everybody,
The reactions show that peoples are very confused: one group supports the ceasefire agreement as a ‘win’, one group complains about betrayal, another group of people still trying to make sense of the ceasefire.
In my opinion, all of us react too fast without appreciating that history unfolds itself with passage of time. How can the Novorossia (consisting of east and south Ukraine, that was a gift to Ukraine by Bolsheviks) come into being as a separate country so quickly without going through the long period of baptism, the pain, the sacrifice, the participation of the community – it needs time! It is not enough to rise against Ukrainian imposter government and using Russian help score victory in few geographical territories!
I strongly believe, in course of time Novorossia will become an independent state consisting of about 40% of current Ukrainian state, OR Galicia will become an independent state consisting of about 20% of current Ukrainian state. Either way, this Russia-brokered peace is a god gift to Novorossia for better team building, and training. They must use this to score final victory that may be another 1 to 3 years away.
Anonymous Indian
_Blue at 04:30 on the last thread had some interesting thoughts on this. Rather than trying to summarize what he/she said, let me just quote it here, bc it’s really worth thinking about and it’d be a shame if anyone missed it:
It had seemed like a buzzing mosquito in my ear, or the sound of a distant surf, but it turns out to be a suspicion or question, and the surf being the receding tide of any semblance of unity in Kiev: This … ‘thing’ … hardly an agreement, seems more to be about Kive’s politics than Donbas at all. Donbas will do as it must, as it has been doing, and at this point it is still a matter of military strategy and decisions. Kiev, on the hand, and it’s relations with Russia, NATO, US, and EU, is in a chaotic state of flux, and this agreement is an insertion into that mess.
Donbas can ignore it, but for Kiev to do so is to invite complications and ramification, both internal and external, albeit, perhaps, out of view. The reactions of the nazis to this, in opposition to Poroschenko, is one of the areas of concern, and possibly will be a wedge between the two: the nazis go feral while Poro gains some legitimacy? This is not a map of what will happen on the ground, over a bit of time, but a bone of contention between Poro, the nazis, and Ukrainian people who have indeed had enough of the war. It also a path for NATO to retreat on for a little while, although maybe a dead end — and yet gives some space to avoid some of the immediate pressure of its defeat.
Perhaps, perhaps… it’s obscure ad chaotic, and yet maybe a line of thought worth considering.
Neutral observer here.
I don’t see Russia taking any longer term view at all. They need to wrap everything up quickly regarding federalization and Poroshenko is probably in agreement. Almost all players want this solved quickly. Note how Poroshenko just announced how Mariupol will be his Stalingrad as he brings more troops in. They’re going all in in Debalcevo as well, despite it being mostly encircled. Checkmate in 3,2,1…
And don’t think he isn’t playing along. Everyone in Ukraine assumes he is, but they also know that, if they try to overthrow him, it’s all over anyway.
The EU people know they have to pretend to be DC’s poodles but they want all this wrapped up before the winter as well. They want to cancel the sanctions soon. Hell, even Obama probably knows it will be the neocons, not his legacy, who will suffer from Ukraine ending up an apparent foreign policy fiasco. If anything his legacy on the matter would be that his actions ultimately preserved a multipolar world order. Obama doesn’t look bad for what he did in Egypt, Libya and Syria; his neocon colleagues do. Obama has been giving neocons and neolibs the rope to hang themselves.
Scottish referendum is a big deal in all this as well. The breakup of the UK is making the potential breakup of Ukraine look like a minor matter. Interesting times.
Slightly OT but worth a bit ‘o consideration within the larger picture. The MSM here in Canuckistan has essentially dropped their propaganda push regarding the Ukraine situation. The CBC has Not overly updated their article of the day over the weekend and the one from today was very short and has not been updated thus far. This has some significance in our opinion as many of you know we have been tracking, archiving and publishing the propaganda spins. While we are a bit behind in our publishing efforts, the desired outcome seems to have taken bold to a great extent. The trolls are losing their battles in the comment threads as well.
Moving forward, our MSM has all but abandoned Ukraine coverage today and have begun diverting attention to the Crown of Thorns. They are pushing the latest “baby” of Kate while burying the Scottish referendum to a great degree. It is also noteworthy the the British Pound seems to be in free fall mode today and the markets are sideways at best and tending downward. This is directly related to the Scotland as the threats from the UK have galvanized the “Yes” crowd and have spooked and shaken the Empire to the core. They are spinning this “baby” as a wake up call to Scotland and are presuming it will have them thinking twice about separation, for some odd reason.
This is a big problem for the Harper Regime and it’s Loyalists as well as their globalist neocon cabal and they are trying to subvert Quebec by using the pro-Harper “Liberal” henchmen within the Quebec Regime to sign the CDN Constitution, aka: allegiance to the Crown of Thorns, aka: British North American Act, that they never have signed. This is significant as it directly related to foreign endeavours such as UK war of aggression and involvement in the sovereign affairs of Nation States that have nothing to do with Canadian protection and sovereignty…
@Saker et. @Everyone,
Keep fightin’ the good fight and stay focused on the all important bigger picture. Power to the People!
DumpHarper!
BOT TAK brings up an important thing: the West or at least the US like to use the good cop/bad cop routine. If Russia thinks that her “friends” in Europe will come through when the chips are down, she better have some good insurance. And good insurance is not trillions of dollars of resources in Siberia. Africa has that kind of insurance.
With regard to sanctions, it appears that the EU is unable to agree to impose them.
The likelihood of this was made clear a few days ago.
As I noted elsewhere the ceasefire document is not a document created by people committed to the process of a long term solution thus the document was poorly drafted. None of the signatories expected it to last. I am surprised that it has lasted, imperfectly, for as long as it has.
The statements from Donbass about their commitment to the document seems reasonable. They are saying they are following the ceasefire because they said they would but that they are not happy about it. Hardly surprising, entirely natural.
Realistically there will be no independent Donbass, and even less a revolution that overturns and takes control of Ukraine. The rebels can’t do it and no other stakeholders want it. As I have already noted a political solution and takeover can happen but the rebels have to start focusing upon realistic outcomes, acting less like rebels and more like statesmen.
I am sure that the rebel leadership will get plenty of opportunities to receive and take advantage of high quality mentorship. I hope they are able to turn down the emotional, visceral (and entirely normal) responses they feel and grow as men and leaders. In that respect, note how the single, most significant feature of Putin’s success thus far, in comparison to other ‘leaders’ has been restraint. That is a great role model from which to learn.
Thus the commentary posted above is a good one, it is rational and addresses the issues well.
Auslander,
Some argue that the US’s goal now is to create a failed state. Like Iraq, Somalia, or Syria. So Novorossiya can be like Kurdistan. Regular bombings and such. The rest of the Ukraine would probably be worse.
The criticisms of Putin are probably more that he can’t decide than that he has betrayed. Just one guy’s opinion, but it seems to me that Russia declared war on the US over Syria and committed a long list of high crimes and misdemeanors, such as the BRICS bank or taking the Crimea. So to have the elite still keep a focus on the West is strange.
@Uriel Fanelli
You said: “Actually you miss the point. Actually there is a surplus of carbon energy in Europe, due of the crysis.”
That’s funny – because Germany built 6 new coal fired electricity plants in 2013 with 12 more planned by 2020. On top of this, another 12 gas fired electricity generation stations.
Data from: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/23/germany-to-open-six-more-coal-power-stations-in-2013/
Where is your view coming from?