Dear friends,
The full address of President Putin to the Federal Assembly is now available online and, since this is a very long text, I will no re-post it here. What I propose to do here is to bring to your attention four verbatim excerpts from his speech with some key segments bolded out.
Most of the speech was on economic and internal matters, but I think that these four points and, especially, the expressions chosen by Putin really “tell the story” of what the Kremlin’s position vis-à-vis the West is nowadays. See for yourself:
1) Crimea is Russian forever:
It was an event of special significance for the country and the people, because Crimea is where our people live, and the peninsula is of strategic importance for Russia as the spiritual source of the development of a multifaceted but solid Russian nation and a centralised Russian state. It was in Crimea, in the ancient city of Chersonesus or Korsun, as ancient Russian chroniclers called it, that Grand Prince Vladimir was baptised before bringing Christianity to Rus.
In addition to ethnic similarity, a common language, common elements of their material culture, a common territory, even though its borders were not marked then, and a nascent common economy and government, Christianity was a powerful spiritual unifying force that helped involve various tribes and tribal unions of the vast Eastern Slavic world in the creation of a Russian nation and Russian state. It was thanks to this spiritual unity that our forefathers for the first time and forevermore saw themselves as a united nation. All of this allows us to say that Crimea, the ancient Korsun or Chersonesus, and Sevastopol have invaluable civilisational and even sacral importance for Russia, like the Temple Mount in Jerusalem for the followers of Islam and Judaism. And this is how we will always consider it.
2) Russia will never become an EU colony:
By the way, Russia has already made a major contribution to helping Ukraine. Let me reiterate that Russian banks already invested some $25 billion in Ukraine. Last year, Russia’s Finance Ministry extended a loan worth another $3 billion. Gazprom provided another $5.5 billion to Ukraine and even offered a discount that no one promised, requiring the country to pay $4.5 billion. Add it all up and you get as much as $ 32.5-33.5 billion that were provided only recently.
Of course, we have the right to ask questions. What was this Ukrainian tragedy for? Wasn’t it possible to settle all the issues, even disputed issues, through dialogue, within a legal framework and legitimately? But now we are being told that this was actually competent, balanced politics that we should comply with unquestionably and blindfolded.
This will never happen. If for some European countries national pride is a long-forgotten concept and sovereignty is too much of a luxury, true sovereignty for Russia is absolutely necessary for survival.
3) The Empire was Russia’s mortal enemy long before Crimea
We remember well how and who, almost openly, supported separatism back then and even outright terrorism in Russia, referred to murderers, whose hands were stained with blood, none other than rebels and organised high-level receptions for them. These “rebels” showed up in Chechnya again. I’m sure the local guys, the local law enforcement authorities, will take proper care of them. They are now working to eliminate another terrorist raid. Let’s support them.
Let me reiterate, we remember high-level receptions for terrorists dubbed as fighters for freedom and democracy. Back then, we realised that the more ground we give and the more excuses we make, the more our opponents become brazen and the more cynical and aggressive their demeanor becomes.
Despite our unprecedented openness back then and our willingness to cooperate in all, even the most sensitive issues, despite the fact that we considered – and all of you are aware of this and remember it – our former adversaries as close friends and even allies, the support for separatism in Russia from across the pond, including information, political and financial support and support provided by the special services – was absolutely obvious and left no doubt that they would gladly let Russia follow the Yugoslav scenario of disintegration and dismemberment. With all the tragic fallout for the people of Russia.
It didn’t work. We didn’t allow that to happen.
Just as it did not work for Hitler with his people-hating ideas, who set out to destroy Russia and push us back beyond the Urals. Everyone should remember how it ended.
4) Russia will not be bullied
No one will ever attain military superiority over Russia. We have a modern and combat ready army. As they now put it, a polite, but formidable army. We have the strength, will and courage to protect our freedom.
We will protect the diversity of the world. We will tell the truth to people abroad, so that everyone can see the real and not distorted and false image of Russia. We will actively promote business and humanitarian relations, as well as scientific, education and cultural relations. We will do this even if some governments attempt to create a new iron curtain around Russia.
We will never enter the path of self-isolation, xenophobia, suspicion and the search for enemies. All this is evidence of weakness, while we are strong and confident.
In my opinion what we are seeing a a big “coming out”. For a variety of reasons, Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov chose not to say this kind of things in the past, but for several months already we have seen a sense of utter disgust manifest itself more and more openly from the Russian. Today, it finally truly came out in the open.
It is painfully clear that Russia considers the USA a an arrogant bully which Russia can stop and that Russia considers the regimes in power in the EU as voiceless colonies. Equally clear is the fact that the Russians are fed up with trying to plead or reason with anybody in the West. The Americans are too arrogant, the Europeans too spineless.
Unlike the Americans, Russians always talk to their enemies and some form of “talking” with the West will continue. But it is rather obvious that the Kremlin has given up any hope of achieving anything through any kind of dialog. From now on, Russia will mostly rely on unilateral actions. And since Russians never threaten, these actions will always come as a shock and a surprise to the Western plutocracies.
I have said this many times: the AngloZionist Empire has launched a real war against Russia, one in which military forces are less important than the informational war, but a real war nonetheless. What the Empire probably did not realize, is that this would not be a short war, but a long one. And while the Empire has already used most of its weapons, the Russians have just begun their defensive operations. This will be a long war and it will only end when one of the two sides basically breaks down and collapses.
On March 1st of this year I wrote a piece entitled “Obama just made things much, much worse in the Ukraine – now Russia is ready for war“. Russia did not want that war, it was imposed on her at a time when Russia was not ready. Nevertheless, today Putin informed us all that Russia refuses to submit, that she accepts the challenge and that she will prevail.
The Saker
This might be just one of many reasons for his discuss of the west. Amerika to the Ukraine nice little govt. you have their and wouldn’t want anything to happen to it. Here’s your $$$$$ master.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/12/meet-greet-natalie-jaresko-us-government-employee-ukraine-finance-minister.html
Thanks for the script.
appreciate your thoughts Saker thank you.
4/12/2014.
“The more we retreat and offer excuses, the more impudent become our opponents, acting in the most cynical and aggressive manner,”-Putin.
He has got it now ! One must be more pro-active with a deranged bully; now he finally understands his “partners.
anglosaxon understand only one language-the language of force.
If you’re going to get that specific, I would say this is more the legacy of the Normans than the Anglo-Saxons. Talk about a frame-up. Not that the Anglo-Saxons weren’t a brutal bunch, started out as a bunch of marauderz and ecological refugees from Germany etc… but the British Empire and it’s US offspring is defenitly Norman in nature. Mobile, naval, bases everywhere etc.
‘It is painfully clear that Russia considers the USA a an arrogant bully which Russia can stop and that Russia considers the regimes in power in the EU as voiceless colonies.’
Come on Vlad, tell us what you really think.
It’s about time someone with some real power came out and said ‘the emporer has no clothes’. Let’s see how those rabid scumbags that have infected DC do in response, How does one top 911 as a false flag?
Do you think that Putin could reveal to the World secrets about 9/11,at the right moment of cause?
This could destroy the US/SAUDIS/ISR and divide US/UE coalition?
They are talking tonight that the Saudis could let the oil go down to 30 dollars,and this for up to 1 year.
Do you think this is possible?
I’m not sure that the Oil lobby in the US(not to talk about Harper who will be destroyed in western Canada by this move,elections next year).
A real own goal,in soccer terms.
The Saudi regime is vassal of the USA. A totalitarian theocracy with no respect for human lives and democracy which is in alliance with the west and no media dares to criticise it.
USA elites are behind the fall in oil price by using Saudis as proxies.
They are waging an economic war against Russia ( and Venezuela, Iran etc). USA could not fight Russia in military terms, do they will use sanctions and embargoes.
At least you’re totally paranoid and seething with hate. You must have it all figured out. (You are also delusional- -even Putin is open about the Western military advantage.
Dear The Saker,
Thank you for your views – you are right the gloves are off – no more politness to their dear “friends” in the West.
The US house of reps declared war today on Russia – so we all know where we stand :(.
They are trying to have a no fly zone in Syria by stealth – good luck with that. Grozny today was shut down fast with no prisoners. A plane came down outside Moscow? Do you Saker think this was coincidence or on purpose?
The sad thing is the USA’s arrogance that they can go round the world and there wil be no blow back will come home to roost – in this day and age the US is not safe despite the two oceans…
I also felt in Putin’s speech that the amnesty for “money returning” to Russia was a final choice to those who have taken their money abroad to bring it back or suffer along with anyone else in the Western banking mechanism.
Rgds,
Veritas
Here’s the Reuters spin article and Harper’s newspaper’s headline spin on the spin:
“Putin defends ‘strong,’ aggressive Russia amid economic woes”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/putin-defends-foreign-policy-as-necessary-for-russias-survival/article21945578/
It’s enough to make you weep.
No wonder Russia just ignores it, perhaps they are mindful of the adage “never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”
Speaking of Harper™ and his bloviator sidekick Baird (the Bairder-Harperhoff gang as I affectionately call them), they are uncharacteristically quiet so far. Perhaps they are suffering indigestion?
Greetings from Singapore:
The only thing BBC picked up from Putin’s statement: Putin warns Russians on hard times. Must say, the propaganda machine in the West is well oiled.
We are on the edge of very serious changes. Possible scenarios:
(1) Putin implenents Starikov’s gold backed rouble. (China could follow)
(2) Iran starts an insurgency in Saudi Arabia/Qatar.
(3) Russia & Iran will put troops in the ground to defeat ISIS.
All three possibilities, combined, will destroy the West financial system and eliminate the feudal monarchies of Arabia.
Rgds
Medjeral
Wow, my estimation of the steely resolve of Vladimir Putin has evolved into a full on man crush
Putin doesn’t engage in childish scolding, but every word packs a punch
Im sure this speech like his address at Sochi will, be buried in the corporate media, but he has essentially laid down the gauntlet
He doesnt want Cold War II but is prepared to meet the West headon. War is on.
His use of language: corner, invade, Hitler. He compared Obama to Hitler without saying it directly!
Turned the table on the Wahabis and Zionists by comparing Crimea to the Temple Mount. Brilliant
Invoked Yugoslavia: dismemberment, disintegration
If the west is censored or mute with shock, the rest of the world must see Russia as a measured alternative for the “also ran” countries seeking a champion against the tender mercies of American Exceptionalism
http://rt.com/news/211411-putin-state-address-top10/
This is my favorite snippet
“If for many European countries, sovereignty and national pride are forgotten concepts and a luxury, then for Russia, true sovereignty is an absolutely necessary condition of our existence.”
Suck it Merkel!
http://sputniknews.com/radio_burning_point/20141203/1015464339.html
Foreigners in the cabinet for 2 reasons
1. A Lithuanian, not an Orc drops the hammer on the austerity on the way
2. No money from the West to be siphoned off by the usual Uki kleptocrats
Will Chocula see January as President? This has got to make the right wingers more apt to try a coup
Everything has a limit and Mr. Putin had enough even though he extended this limit for quite some time.
It is about time he starts taking action by supplying Iran with S300′ etc. The Empire beats other governments mostly by psyops and bluffing.
“Crimea, the ancient Korsun or Chersonesus, and Sevastopol have invaluable civilisational and even sacral importance for Russia, like the Temple Mount in Jerusalem for the followers of Islam and Judaism. And this is how we will always consider it.”
This must be the most ridiculous thing that Putin has ever said. If anyone has the right to claim a historical national right to the Crimean Peninsula, it is the historically oppressed Crimean Tatars.
If Putin had said the above about Kiev, it would have been more believable and more historically accurate.
Although I generally support Putin over the West — and definitely over the buffoons occupying Kiev — this is way off. Frankly, I’m disgusted with this level of pagan/nationalist/political opportunism on Putin’s part.
Peace
http://goo.gl/coZ8gp
A number of Russian scholars within Russia itself criticize Putin’s odd claims about Crimea.
Shoes said…@ 04 December, 2014 23:36
“The Empire beats other governments mostly by psyops and bluffing. “
War is a process and the opponents have been subjected to lateral strategies since at least 1991.
The opponents are/were not constant or homogenous.
There are many inhabiting the same geographical space as the opponents who are not opponents, but are deluded by various means into thinking they have a community of interest with the opponents.
If the purpose is transcendance throughout history the opponents have not beaten anyone.
Bravo, Bravo and Bravo !!!!!!
Off topic I know but of possible importance . Ive heard from a reliable source that two American special ops have been killed at the airport and they were dressed in Russian uniforms . I was also told that they had fake Russian documentation along with their true American IDs . Can anyone confirm or deny ? If this proves to be true then this has enormous implications and needs to be shouted from the rooftops .
The same source told me that the CIA were operating out of an office in Mariupol and that proved correct. He subsequently sent me scans of CIA memos from Mariupol that indicated a local origin. For this reason I think its likely to be correct.
Bob
Hey Saker and Folks,
I liked this “The Americans are too arrogant, the Europeans too spineless.”
Many Americans feel the same way about their political parties, I’ve heard!
Putin is the man.
The West has become a sick, sad and depressing culture of chaos, drugs and death.
@ishamid:“Crimea, the ancient Korsun or Chersonesus, and Sevastopol have invaluable civilisational and even sacral importance for Russia, like the Temple Mount in Jerusalem for the followers of Islam and Judaism. And this is how we will always consider it.” This must be the most ridiculous thing that Putin has ever said
He was trying to explain in categories a westerner can understand that Crimea has is the place where Russian Orthodoxy began. You might not like the comparisons he made, but that is really “most ridiculous thing that Putin ever said” then this is high praise for Putin indeed as what he said is not ridiculous in the least.
If anyone has the right to claim a historical national right to the Crimean Peninsula, it is the historically oppressed Crimean Tatars.
Here you are mislead by a basic but mistaken assumption. Putin does not believe that “Russia is the country of Russians only” but, to the contrary, that “Russia the the country of all her people”. When Putin says that Crimea is sacred to Russia, he does not exclude Tatars (or Jews, or Greeks or anybody else). You forget that Russian culture follows the Byzantine model, not the west European one, and that “Russian” is not an ethnic category.
To make this a Russian vs Tatar is *completely misunderstanding* the issue.
I’m disgusted with this level of pagan/nationalist/political opportunism on Putin’s part.
Pagan?! Nationalist? I am saddened to hear so much vehemence and hyperbole against a person who is neither pagan nor nationalist (at least on in the Western sense of nationalism. Putin is a patriot of his country, no a person obsessed with ethnicity issues).
Anger and disgust are impediments to informed, fact based and logical thinking while hyperbole is no substitute for a good argument.
If you want to understand Russians and Putin I urge you to set aside western categories and to look into a different cultural and civilizational reality.
Cheers and peace to you,
The Saker
Peace,
The Saker
I think that US/EU/NATO has to draw a new Rambouillet Agreement for Russia.
Looks like Carolingian civilization wants to give Eurasia one last try. There have been many attempts by these marauders to subjugate Russia even before Napoleon. But Napoleon’s invasion was significant in that for the first time the old carolingian realm was united under his empire, France failed. A century later an even more sophisticated state system tried to subdue them(Russians and Eurasia), Germany failed. This time the Anglo Saxons specifically the Americans along with their EU pet project and instrument of terror(NATO) want to test their luck.
[from Blue]
A bit of a puzzlement as to what’s up.
Obviously the western empire has not changed, and Putin and the Russians understood all of this all along, but refrained from saying much about, I assume because they were not ready for frontal conflagration in some area. I can’t think Putin ever did not understand the reality.
Something like talking to the opponent while you are loading your gun?
But now, whatever it was, they are ready — something has changed — some deal signed or some force positioned. This is not a ‘realization’ or ‘giving up trying’, but a change in some circumstance that held Russia back before.
The empire had best be VERY careful now.
__Blue
@Saker:
“Putin does not believe that “Russia is the country of Russians only” but, to the contrary, that “Russia the the country of all her people”.”
It is not clear to me that Crimean Tatars (or Chechens or…) consider themselves as “Russian” even in this broader sense [which I don’t completely buy anymore than I buy the category of “American” — but that’s another discussion].
But for discussion’s sake let’s grant your point and your superior understanding of this civilizational question. Putin is is still engaging in demagoguery and opportunism. Even an outsider like me knows something about the historical role of Kiev in Russian history. If Putin had taken all of Novurussia from Lugansk to Odessa, that would have been more respectable, if the aim was to protect Russians in the broader sense. Or if Putin had taken Kiev and made this speech about Kiev, it would have been more respectable.
The fact of the matter is that the Russians — in the narrow, ethnic sense — from 1783-1944 systematically ethnically cleansed the Crimean Tatars from the Peninsula, a crime no less than the behavior of the Zionists in Palestine or the treatment of the native Americans here.***
The fact is that the Peninsula has immense *geo-strategic* value. So all of Putin’s talk of Crimea as an “intrinsic” part of Russia is just nationalist rhetoric — and nationalism is just modern henotheism and paganism.*****
If it were the Russian people in the broader sense that was Putin’s real concern, all of Novurussia would have been liberated by now, at least up to the Dnieper River and Odessa [to which the Nazis in Kiev lost any moral high ground when they torched a building full of Russians alive — and Putin did *nothing*].
The fact is, as you dear Saker have pointed out over and over again, is that Russia does not geo-strategically need the Ukraine. But it does geo-strategically *need* the Crimea! So I can’t take Putin seriously wrapping himself in the Russian flag to justify what under any circumstances was an opportunistic land grab for geo-strategic purposes.*****
“Anger and disgust are impediments to informed, fact based and logical thinking while hyperbole is no substitute for a good argument.”
That is perfectly true. In this case there is no anger at all; as for the disgust, it is the outcome of objective analysis over a long period of time, not this one snippet of one speech taken in isolation. And in this reply I have given some (but by no means all but some) of the arguments that lie behind that disgust.
***[For the record, and from a deeper spiritual point of view, I consider the diaspora of the Crimean Tatars partly a consequence of their own terrible sins as a people. But that does not excuse those who oppressed them.]
*****[BTW, I’ll say the same thing about Black nationalism, Jewish nationalism, Palestinian nationalism, Arab nationalism, Persian nationalism, Ukrainian nationalism, et al].
Keep up the good fight and
Peace
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-04/fight-breaks-out-parliament-when-ukraine-learns-it-has-quietly-become-newest-us-stat
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-04/charges-brought-against-national-bank-ukraine-liquidating-gold-reserves
How stupid are the Ukrainians. This is what. Maidan hath wrought. Didnt even take a year
Kosovo is the Jerusalem of the Serbs and I read Putin as saying Krim is the Jerusalem of the Russians. What he says is new to me, but I understand the significance of his words. That is where Prince Vladimir was baptized.
This is the second war we see over Krim. A spiritual war? Nicholas the first lost, but Putin will win.
I read the whole speech and I must say Putin sounds like a member of the Saker community. He speaks perfect German and some English, but I doubt he has the time to come here. That should mean we are on the right track when we give advice to Russia, as we did to Mr Khazin, advice the Kremlin already has taken note of. We are in harmony with the president of Russia. How I wish the elite of this world would understand what it is up against. It is not Putin, it is not Russia, it is Heaven itself.
You are totally right.
Can we as people of the world tell the governments we don’t want war and punto? And sure not with our money and people like our brothers, our fathers, moms, family, etc.?
Can we as people of the world tell the governments we don’t want war and punto? And sure not with our money and people like our brothers, our fathers, moms, family, etc.?
Anonymous said…
I think that US/EU/NATO has to draw a new Rambouillet Agreement for Russia.
LOL good one, they have no balls to do that and if by some chance they do well, goodbye to you all MIRV will be coming.
Saker: Your terminology “AngloZionist” is misleading.
Most people associate the word “Anglo” with the British, even though according the dictionary’s definition, it means “a white, English-speaking American”.
The Trio of “USA, UK and Israel” is what you are trying to denote as the “Empire” and rightly so.
I have been calling the Trio the “Axis of the Righteous” to mock their hubris and their narcissistic sense of self-importance as “Saviors of the World” or in Israel’s case “the Chosen Ones.”
@Ishamid:It is not clear to me that Crimean Tatars (or Chechens or…) consider themselves as “Russian” even in this broader sense [which I don’t completely buy anymore than I buy the category of “American” — but that’s another discussion].
First, I was not trying to explain what Crimean Tatars or Chechens do or do not consider themselves to be. I was trying to explain what Putin and most Russian consider the Crimean and Chechens to be. That is a non-sequitur.
Second, if, for conversation’s sake, we assume that indeed Crimean Tatars and Chechens do not consider themselves to be “Rossiiani” (parts of the civilizaton(s) of Russia, as opposed to “Russkiie” part of the Russian ethnicity), then who of the two is basing his worldview on nationalism? Putin or these (putative) Crimean Tatars or Chechens? Every person has the right to consider himself/herself as part of anything he/she wants. But one does not have the right to project his/her ethnicity-based nationalism onto those who do not share it.
Putin is is still engaging in demagoguery and opportunism. Even an outsider like me knows something about the historical role of Kiev in Russian history.
You are accusing one man – Putin – on the basis of (putative) historical antecedents, a surefire sign of a total lack of pertinent evidence to support your accusation.
If Putin had taken all of Novurussia from Lugansk to Odessa, that would have been more respectable, if the aim was to protect Russians in the broader sense. Or if Putin had taken Kiev and made this speech about Kiev, it would have been more respectable.
Wait! So your argument of Tatars persecuted by Russians does not apply to Ukrainian persecuted by Russians or, at the very least, Ukrainians convinced that their forefathers have been prosecuted by Russians? If Putin had indeed invaded most or all of the Ukraine you would not have argued for the same rights to reject Russian intervention on historical grounds as you do for Tatars? If invading most of the Ukraine is respectable and letting the people of Crimea vote in a referendum where, I remind you, an overwhelming majority voted for reunification with Russia, is not respectable, then I have to conclude that for you Tatars have some kind of special status which you don’t grant the Ukrainians. This begs the question your own ethnicity-based preferential treatment of some human beings as opposed to others.
The fact of the matter is that the Russians — in the narrow, ethnic sense — from 1783-1944 systematically ethnically cleansed the Crimean Tatars from the Peninsula, a crime no less than the behavior of the Zionists in Palestine or the treatment of the native Americans here.
to be continued…
continued:
You cannot be serious?! There was a “Tatar Gaza” in Imperial Russia?! All the 180+ non-Russian minorities which still exist in Russia today are evidence of a genocide comparable to the one of native Americans?! My friend, you are entitled to your opinions, even ones based or prejudice, but not to your own wholly fictional facts.
Besides, even if you were 100% correct in your totally warped vision of Russian history, you would still be wrong logically and morally. It is logically wrong to refer to past wrongs to accuse those who today are innocent of them, and it is morally wrong to blame somebody for what his/her ancestors did do. I am baffled that you would not see how unsustainable this argument is.
The fact is, as you dear Saker have pointed out over and over again, is that Russia does not geo-strategically need the Ukraine. But it does geo-strategically *need* the Crimea! So I can’t take Putin seriously wrapping himself in the Russian flag to justify what under any circumstances was an opportunistic land grab for geo-strategic purposes
Ishamid, what happened to your sense of logic?! The fact that Crimea is, indeed, of vital strategic value to Russia (which nobody denies!) does in no way imply that its spiritual value is contrived or otherwise false.
I know you as somebody normally very logical and yet in this case you pile on one logical fallacy on another. You don’t sound like somebody trying to make sense, but as somebody trying to vent frustrated rage at Putin. If you don’t like him – fine. I see no problem with that. If you are generally hostile towards Russians, that is fine again. There is no moral law obliging you to like everybody. But why appeal to such illogical and even ethically unsustainable arguments to make your case?
You can suspect Putin of all sorts of evil intentions and believe that he is a shameless hypocrite. But since you cannot read minds – only God can do that – and since you don’t approve of judging others, I cannot imagine why you would make such strident yet totally unsubstantiated accusations and then try to back them by a long series of fallacies.
Frankly, I am baffled, disappointed and saddened by your comments.
The Saker
@David Chu:Your terminology “AngloZionist” is misleading.
No. I clearly defined this term:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/09/anglozionist-short-primer-for-newcomers.html
Cheers,
The Saker
Anti-Russian terrorists were also backed by Germany. It is the same strategy NATO apllied in its war against Yugoslavia.
“German Chechens
…
In spite of previous warning by Russian officials, preparations for
the action during which 130 persons died in a Moscow music hall, were made in Germany.”
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/42772
“The Chechens’ American friends
The Washington neocons’ commitment to the war on terror evaporates in
Chechnya, whose cause they have made their own”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/08/usa.russia
“Russians Blast US-UK Sponsorship Of Chechen Terror”
http://www.rense.com/general57/rusbnlt.htm
The US has made Europe a NATO colony with the EU as an Economic Sub-Committee running Europe for the Occupying Power.
NATO is unelected Military Dictatorship (see Art 6 of NATO Charter) with EU as Unelected Dictatorship of Social and Economic Affairs
There is neither time nor interest to go deeper into this, but I will say the following:
“First, I was not trying to explain what Crimean Tatars or Chechens do or do not consider themselves to be.”
But that is immensely relevant to the status of Crimea! [or Chechnya or…]
“But one does not have the right to project his/her ethnicity-based nationalism onto those who do not share it.”
This is exactly what Putin does when he tries to gather the Tatars and others into a broader “Russian” category! Many native Americans resent being gathered into the “American” category as well.
“So your argument of Tatars persecuted by Russians does not apply to Ukrainian persecuted by Russians or, at the very least, Ukrainians convinced that their forefathers have been prosecuted by Russians?”
I was obviously only speaking of the traditionally Russian or Russian-leaning parts of Ukraine (Southeast) not interested in joining the EU or in discarding their Russian identity (in the broader sense that you have propounded).
“then I have to conclude that for you Tatars have some kind of special status which you don’t grant the Ukrainians.”
I don’t recall the Ukrainians being ethnically cleansed from their homeland; you’re comparing apples and oranges.
“All the 180+ non-Russian minorities which still exist in Russia today are evidence of a genocide comparable to the one of native Americans?!”
Well, the native Americans still exist as well.
And you just did a bait and switch: I spoke of ethnic cleansing, and you spoke of genocide. I did not say anything about genocide, only ethnic cleansing, which is historically indisputable in the case of the Tatars.
“It is logically wrong to refer to past wrongs to accuse those who today are innocent of them, and it is morally wrong to blame somebody for what his/her ancestors did do.”
Where did I blame Putin for the sins of the Tsars or Stalin? I only pointed out his political opportunism in trying to use nationalist rhetoric to justify taking the Crimea.
“The fact that Crimea is, indeed, of vital strategic value to Russia (which nobody denies!) does in no way imply that its spiritual value is contrived or otherwise false.”
I never suggested that implication! I only pointed out that
1) Putin’s use of this alleged connection is opportunistic, whether or not it is true;
2) The Crimean Tatars as apeople have a greater historical right to the Peninsula
“If you are generally hostile towards Russians, that is fine again.”
You know better than that, c’mon.
“since you don’t approve of judging others”
I didn’t accuse Putin to be a non-Christian or of not believing in God or the like… only of political opportunism, a claim that I believe is objectively supported by his historical record in the sad saga of Ukraine and Novorussia.
Peace
To the saker & friends
Perhaps the most important part of the pipeline deal that Russia made with Turkey is that the projected volume of gas is almost equal to the deal with China.
The message is simple and clear. In the most recent negotiations with China on the second gas line, China became very demanding. Putin pushed through the deal at some loss to Russia. So the line to Turkey is a message to the Chinese as well as the Europeans. Neither of them will take advantage of Russia at the time of her need.
Well done Putin.
Dear Saker:
Re “Disgusted, Russia officially gives up…” I have a theory:
When all this Ukrainian nonsense was started by the Germans and Americans, Russia was in fact caught off-guard. Putin played very, very patiently: not only because of the complex internal situation in Ukraine that an instant Russian intervention may well have further complicated, but also to get ready for the next Nazi assault on Russia. I think he read it right away that the EU-NATO-US empire will have to be faced militarily, but he also sensibly realized that Russia needed time to get her military and equipment ready. Now that that readiness has been achieved, Russia is talking to the empire a little differently. All those who were despairing of Putin’s weakness, give this some thought. My fear is that, games theory notwithstanding, a war could erupt, precisely because the decision-makers in the west are not sane. All bets should therefore be off, and trust should only be placed in one’s military strength. Even the insane sometimes back down when they see a strong opponent ready to give battle, and I think that is what Putin has now been forced to do.
Peace – let us still hope for it.
I thought Putin’s address was sober and I was able to listen to a whole hour which is something I could never do with an American president. George W., Obama, Clinton and George H. W. all insulted what little intelligence I have. W had that little barely perceptible smirk which communicated arrogance. Putin might be a great man for the people of Russia. In any case as an American I in no way consider him to be an enemy.
It was clear since late 2013 and early 2014 that the US and (under pressure it has to be said, the EU) are intent on destroying Russia. Maybe they are willing to settle for a weakened Russia, but that is besides the point. Their ultimate aim is the complete destruction of Russia as a state controlling the vast expanses of northern Eurasia along with vast mineral resources as well as possessing the world’s most formidable nuclear arsenal. Those three aspects of Russian statehood are unacceptable for the AZ Empire and they are hell-bent on dealing with it in the most brutal and cynical manner imaginable.
We tend to make the historical analogies between the current situation and the Napoleonic (pan-European) attack on Russia in 1812 and that of Hitler (again pan-European almost) in 1941. Without a shred of sensationalism, this fundamentally true. While a direct military invasion is ruled out for the cowards of NATO, who only like to fight completely defenseless countries, they are more than willing to use every other trick in the book.
a) Proxy wars: As they did with Chechnya, then Georgia and were defeated, they are now doing with Ukraine.
b) Information/propaganda warfare: As every member of this forum can attest, the amount of outright lies and vulgar obscenities being published about Russia in the western MSM press have surpassed all and any precedent. It seems that an entire War Industry of Mis-Information about Russia has been carefully constructed in the West. The CIA’s tentacles are all over this. They are utilizing threats, bribes, carefully placed “assets” so that widespread anti-Russian paranoia can be fostered in as many counties as possible, especially in the EU and the US. This is an area where the AZ Empire is truly formidable. At the same time, there is evidence that this tactic tends to backfire sometimes or not gain too much traction in the first place. This is the reason why the MH17 false flag operation was required, and this is why the Anglo_Zionists are doing everything possible to provoke Russia into some kind of violent reaction. Also, there are indeed lots of people in the West who are turning to alternative media (such as this blog) to get information over recent developments in Russia/Ukraine.
c) Economic Warfare: The most powerful card that the Gay Parade Coalition possesses against Russia is of course their iron grip of financial markets and flows. In this area, even China (otherwise a genuine economic colossus) is weak versus the West. The AZ Empire can inflict serious economic pain on Russia through this mechanism, until domestic and alternative (Asian, Chinese, maybe Arab) sources of funds can be secured.
Having said that, I definitely agree with the Saker that the Empire has already fired its best shots. They have little extra to offer unless they move into seriously desperate and extremely risky (for them, not only for Russia) moves. The best they can do from now on is to keep those sectoral sanctions in place.
My one deep fear is the following though. That the US successfully manages to subsidize its Light Tight Oil (LTO) production in order to keep oil prices low for 3 or even 5 more years. After that, no matter what the US does, production will commence falling since their shale oil reserves are not that great (see David Hughes @ shalebubble.org) However unlikely this may sound, I would not put it beyond the minds of US neo-cons. The difficulties in performing such an operation in the US are at least 2: a) Deeply entrenched free-market romanticism that abhors large-scale government intervention and even more crucially b) The vast array of obligations that the USG is liable for in the future. It is quite possible that they will not be able to afford such an operation. In fact, I would expect that withing the next 2 years, the USG will be once again forced to provide massive bail-outs for Wall Street banks that this time will get burned not in sub-prime mortgages but in sub-prime oil extraction.
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“If you are generally hostile towards Russians, that is fine again.”
You know better than that, c’mon.
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I think anyone reading the entirety of my words will see that, if anything, I am appalled at what I consider to be Putin’s treatment of the *Russians* of *Novorussia* and Odessa! My comments clearly show that I think the Novorussian/Russian narrative — on the whole — is more persuasive than the Ukrainian nationalist one and the Western one. I even said that I prefer Putin to both Western and Ukrainian leaders…
So how does that make me hostile to Russians?!?
Yes, I am very, perhaps severely, critical of Putin and what appears to be his blatant opportunism. I believe that his behavior — whatever the short-term benefits — will harm *Russia* in the long run. Yes, I do not buy every dot on every ‘i’ of the Russian narrative as Saker sees it. But one has to look at the entirety of my comments, not only the critical snippet.
:-)
Peace
@Ishamid:But that is immensely relevant to the status of Crimea! [or Chechnya or…]
Yes, but not to the substatiation of your claim about the intentions and/or beliefs of Putin
As for the status of Crimea, it was decided by REFERENDUM OF ITS PEOPLE. You are welcome to ignore it or deny its validity, but even the corporate media (very reluctantly) admits that most people in Crimea wanted to join Russia. Unless, of course, you make the case that only Crimean Tatars were entitled to vote (favoring one ethnicity over several others)
and that most Crimean Tatars opposed the re-union with Russia (good luck trying to prove that!)
This is exactly what Putin does when he tries to gather the Tatars and others into a broader “Russian” category!
So if Putin considers non-Russians as fellow “Rossiiani” is is wrong. And if he said, like the Latvian, “Latvia for the Latvian” he would be wrong again. He can’t win with you, if only because you have him guilty by definition.
And you just did a bait and switch: I spoke of ethnic cleansing, and you spoke of genocide. I did not say anything about genocide, only ethnic cleansing, which is historically indisputable in the case of the Tatars.
Oh come on! You spoke of Native Americans and of Palestinians! Ethnic cleansing?! Ishamid – “ethnicity” is not a Russian category. The Tsars which you blamed were ethnic Germans, Shoigu is Tuvan, Bezler German again, Vyssotskii Jewish, Pushkin Ethiopian and even I myself have much less than 50% of “Russian” blood (with plenty of Tatar, by the way). You are applying 18th-19th century West European categories to a totally different civilization.
I never suggested that implication!
“So I can’t take Putin seriously wrapping himself in the Russian flag to justify what under any circumstances was an opportunistic land grab for geo-strategic purposes“
QED.
There is no point continuing this. I am sad to say that for your ideology clearly trumps facts and that fairness and justice have no place in that ideology. This is very sad as this ideology separates mankind into two categories “your” camp and “the rest” who are, by definition, not only wrong, but morally dishonorable.
An ideology which separates humans into categories in which “some are more equal than others” will never result in peace, only more conflict and more violence. That kind of “intellectual Apartheid” has been tried by many in the past and it never achieved anything.
Thank God I am pretty darn sure that the vast majority Tatars (or Chechens, for that matter) do not think that way.
Peace? Alas, not by that kind of worldview.
The Saker
Like many, I was anticipating or hoping for a bit more on the economic front. That is what most see as Russia’s weak point. Of course, losing the element of surprise would be a cost of announcing anything big.
Still, one gets the feeling that the Kremlin wants to fight the West’s “liberal empire” with liberal economics, which may not work that well.
Dear Saker: The controversy between you and Ishamid is getting too intense. Couldn’t we move on to something less controversial ? Like maybe the differences between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Papacy, for example. Or maybe whether Stalin was good or bad for Russia overall. Something light, to reduce the tension.
Part I:
Now let’s do a balance sheet of the AZ War against Russia up to now.
From the AZ Empire’s point of view:
a) Sweeping financial sanctions on Russia imposed.
b) Created a festering wound on Russia’s doorstep (if not in Russia’s home)
c) Largely broken Russia’s formerly relatively good relations with some major EU states.
d) Sanctions are having at least a partial short-term effect.
From Russia’s point of view:
a) Crimea re-unified with the motherland.
b) Wise, grand in scale and far-reaching long-term contracts with China have been rapidly put in place. Two mega-gas deals, along with dozens of others ranging from arms sales, to coal, to railways, to car manufacturing to science etc…
c) A full-scale Strategic Alliance between Russia and China seems virtually assured. This will prove a world-historic development once i goes into full swing.
d) NovoRossiya saved from Nazi death-squads. Even though under fire still, the Ukies would be insane to launch another major offensive. Only their US masters can push for something of that type and even that is debatable.
e) The deal with Turkey is a major coup for Russia. A traditionally hostile power and a NATO cornerstone since its inception doing a long-term mega deal with Russia behind the backs of the EU and Uncle Sam is nothing short of astonishing. We must watch this space really closely.
f) Putin will soon be visiting first India and then Japan. Since we now know that Putin does not state visits for the sake of it (especially since the crisis began) we should be expecting some meaty deals in terms of investments and even possibly some new pipelines.
Now, as we have well established the AZ Empire has attacked Russia when she was not fully prepared for it, catching her off-balance and off-guard. This is to be expected since if Russia were ready, they would never have attacked in the first place. Inevitably, and I also should add, pragmatically, Russia had to retreat on some fronts for three reasons in my opinion:
a) The AZ Empire is still formidable, despite its relative decline.
b) Fear of completely alienating the European populations by falling into the trap of AZ propaganda and doing something that could easily be portrayed as aggressive by the presstitudes.
c) The delicate situation in the Ukraine. It is true that there is genuine anti-Russian feeling in Ukraine. A muscular intervention in the Ukraine would serve to partly justify it, since it would regrettably involve the killing of many thousand Ukrainian people who are just patriotic/pro-European and not Nazi.
Part II:
Since this latest war on Russia takes a mainly economic character, Russia will remain under severe pressure and be unable to successfully counter-attack the AZ Empire until the economy re-adjusts and reorients (funny that this expression literally means: turning East) to new and friendly markets and sources of fiance. This process will take a few good years, maybe even a decade to be fully fledged. Throughout the coming period though, Russia will seek to preserve much of its sales to Europe while at the same time expanding those in other markets. This will be the decisive battleground.
At the same time, we should not be wholly dismissive of the EU just yet. While it is certainly 100% true that the current Euro-land leaders are spineless and corrupt puppets of the US, this is not at all the case with other political forces within the EU. Rising politicians like Farage, Le Pen, Tsipras, Grillo etc… have very openly and very strongly expressed their dismay with the EU’s current Russia policy and it seems certain that they mean what they say. These politicians have been under intense fire from the MSM, but have stood firm over years and their support is only rising. It is quite conceivable that some of these leaders will soon be in power in some Euro-land states or will be in some form or another in a capacity to influence policy. The point here is that the EU is under severe internal strain on all levels and any future crisis may result in a radical alteration of policy or even the complete break-down of the EU. That would signal victory for Russia in my opinion.
Ishamid,
re: “I didn’t accuse Putin to be a non-Christian or of not believing in God or the like… only of political opportunism, a claim that I believe is objectively supported by his historical record in the sad saga of Ukraine and Novorussia.”
Russia’s rather pathetic approach to the Ukraine since independence needs long examination, but one can certainly understand the Kremlin’s desire to keep a united and neutral Ukraine next door. One should also consider that Putin might have preferred a tougher approach, but wanted a much greater degree of support within elite circles. Having 75% of the elite back him instead of 55% would be very helpful. To gain that additional support, he had to convince them that there were no compromises that Ukrainian oligarchs could arrange. In any case, Russia needed time to prepare various economic matters. The whole economic structure is based on economic liberalism integrated with the West.
Finally, as Saker has pointed out many times, watching the Ukraine crash could have some advantages for Russia. One is that Poland and Germany can enjoy some new immigrants. Another is that a lot of those who don’t care for Russia will realize that the West used them. Maybe they won’t love Russia, but at least having them see the evil on both sides would be helpful. Next, in a collapsed state, Russia may be able to influence the political situation a lot more. If a bunch of Ukrainian oligarchs go bankrupt, they won’t have all the power. Lastly, Russia might even want to smash the Ukraine as it was and replace it, so to speak. This could never be mentioned due to the sentimental views of so many, but “order out of chaos” works both ways. If Kiev has no heat and electricity for a couple of years, and various anti-Russian oligarchs and their companies have to shut down and move to Lvov, it might be possible to drive the anti-Russian sentient into Galicia and let them declare independence.
As an aside, one Russian article says “As experience has shown, a freezing Europe has proven to be an intelligent and adaptable Europe.” The European public will be a lot less enthusiastic of what their leaders have done in Ukraine if there are no visible Russian troops occupying everything.
During his German TV interview just after G20 I thought Vladimir Putin looked uncomfortable in his anger. He’s now had time to reflect on it and integrate it.
He mentions the importance of revealing the truth about Russia. I hope he will also reveal the truth about the international banking cabal. I cannot see that it is possible to devise an alternative to the SWIFT clearing system or even very much freedom from the dollar without a more thorough attack of the banking system.
It will be necessary to devise an honest system and for a bunch of countries to all desert the current racket simultaneously– a tall order, but not impossible. There is very great resentment of the current order.
Thank you for pointing out the international issues of his speech.
It is interesting to see how a nation that is in defense mode, can turn to some kind of realism and even (a kind of frustrated) honesty. Nevertheless overall Putin is right and his playbook is excellent.
But have no hope though. Once Russia gets out of defense mode the ugliness of the state/beast/sphinx will rise again.
It reminds me above all of the most excellent book “Hommage to Catalonia” of George Orwell, you know the one no one read.
“Ishamid – “ethnicity” is not a Russian category”
Even if true, it does not follow that the Crimean Tatars were not ethnically cleansed! You are confusing object language (Russian civilizational categories) with metalanguage (my categories), and are confusing categories in general with the facts — what happened to the Tatars cannot be wiped away by terminology!
“most people in Crimea wanted to join Russia”
A rushed election is like a shotgun marriage: It leaves more questions than answers. But the opportunis remains: Putin could have launched a similar election for Novurussia but quite *conveniently* did not!
“most Crimean Tatars opposed the re-union with Russia (good luck trying to prove that!)”
“I am sad to say that for your ideology clearly trumps facts and that fairness and justice have no place in that ideology. This is very sad as this ideology separates mankind into two categories “your” camp and “the rest” who are, by definition, not only wrong, but morally dishonorable.”
There you go again with the same double fallacy of accusation by supposed implication to a conclusion that I do not believe, and which you have to know that I do not believe.
“”So I can’t take Putin seriously wrapping himself in the Russian flag to justify what under any circumstances was an opportunistic land grab for geo-strategic purposes””
This absolutely does NOT imply that “[the] spiritual value [of the CP] is contrived or otherwise false”
Did you even read what I wrote after:
“Putin’s use of this alleged connection is opportunistic, whether or not it is true” etc.
Again, you take my words out of context!
But you are right, there is no point to continue. It appears to this writer that the Putin/Russian civilizational narrative as you see it is beyond criticism or multiple points of view.
Peace *and* Justice
BLUE: In my opinion the something that changed was first the sanctions: Something changed in Putin’s face when the German’s came out w sanctions. Oh, he kept his poker face, as men do. But the underlying musculature showed grief– the giving up of a dream. Russia cd no longer be expected to have peace and the possibility of concentrating solely on progress. His grief was always a preoccupation before him, though he continued to function. When Merkel saw him she said it was as if he was somewhere else.
The second thing, that finally turned it FULLY to anger, in my opinion, was being lied to to his face at G20. About MH17 & Ukraine.
I’m glad he’s completed that pilgrimage from hope to action. From the wish to find reasonableness to the identification of evil. We are all Russian now.
Ishamid My understanding is that the Tartars invading Crimea centuries ago…aren’t they mongols ?
Ishamid Your reply to Saker has an unmistakeable hatred of Putin ringing through it…there’s no point in arguing with someone who has fallen under the propaganda of the western media…sorry, but its unmistakeable.
Saker !
this commentary between yo and Ishamid is extremely interesting…thank you for going to all the trouble, almost another article-size piece that we can all learn from…and your comment about Ishamid’s “peace” is great…it bugs me when that word is thrown around …into anyone’s face…
by the way, Saker, what does QED stand for…?
@Ishamid: bis repetitas:
Putin could have launched a similar election for Novurussia but quite *conveniently* did not!
Does in Crimea – Putin bad
Does not do it in Novorussia – Putin still bad
Putin always bad!!!
I throw in the towel in complete disgust with that kind of intellectual contortionism..
@Ann: quod erat demonstrandum or “that which needed to be proven”.
:-)
The tatars from Crimeea were living for centuries mostly from savagely killing and looting their neighbours (from east, west and north) and also from taking many of them as slaves to be sold to the Ottoman Empire. Their assaults, mass-killings and complete destruction of villages remained in the history as some of the most horrific (similar to the mongolian hordes from which they actually derived). There should be no surprise that when the tables turned around some payback will take place (what do you expect after killing and raping for several centuries ???). If we are to talk about fairness, they should pay billions of gold coins in compensations to all the ones who suffered after their arrival from the steppes of Asia in the Crimean peninsula.
Editors: As of now, we understand from your words, the United States no intention of stabilizing the situation in Ukraine?
Professor: There can be used a wide range of steps. But whatever would happen in the political sphere in Ukraine, the main must remain unchanged – termination broad cooperation between Russia and Europe. Let the events in Ukraine is heading anywhere, but in any case, must lead to the division of the Russians and Europeans.
Editor: Could you show some examples of events in Ukraine, how your concept implemented? It is a fact that some observers when trying to predict the logic of things come to an impasse, not understanding the causes of new steps Kievan rulers. People do not understand the logic behavior of Americans in conjunction with some steps after uregulování conflict in Ukraine.
Professor: Sure. Only it is necessary to accurately remember one simple thing: United States pursue only their own goal of maintaining the global financial system based on the dollar – due to the realization of that goal was even broach the Ukrainian campaign after the destruction of economic cooperation between Russia and Europe. All events taking place in Ukraine, should be examined solely from these positions. For example, the agreement of 21 February, when the Ukrainian opposition leaders and the leaders of France, Germany and Poland signed an agreement with Yanukovych on early elections of the President, was doomed to failure in advance. If the agreement was implemented, the conflict in Ukraine could calm down and then it would no interruption of economic relations of Europe and Russia out of the question. It was therefore necessary grossly violate the agreement, which has also been carried out. Even Russia, and Europe would become hostages of complete unpredictability and illogical steps the new Ukrainian power. The more time of a misunderstanding between Russia and Europe, the sooner they will create conditions for the realization of our plans regarding the creation in Ukraine economic barriers.
America needs in Ukraine such an order, which would severed economic cooperation of Russia and Europe. A US policy lies in the fact that the events develop as well. Today events in Ukraine are beginning and not worth the wait appeasement – restless Ukraine must become impassable barrier between Russia and Europe. Understand one thing. For severing economic ties with Russia, Europe needs to be Europeans so strongly frighten the Russian danger to themselves that they want to do – it is necessary to fundamentally change the European public opinion on cooperation with Russia. It should still emphasize aggression and unpredictability of Russia, provoking him to escalation of the conflict in Ukraine. The media must still talk about the growth of tension in Ukraine, the violence and brutality perpetrated by the Russians to Europe matured into předvýbušného state.
Let Europeans tremble possible Russian invasion – to create an image of a blunt Russian, ready for any adventures, starting with the orbits of the American ship and end of the movement of the Russian armies to the borders of the Baltic states and Ukraine, must be dedicated to all the activities of our mass media. Now the activities of the mass media now depend mood of European society, and ultimately the success of the Ukrainian Campaign by USA.
Professor: It offered an interesting solution, which will try to explain the essence. To solve the financial difficulties the US must take extreme measures, comparable perhaps to the global cataclysm. The problem is how to build such a cataclysm without devastating consequences for the United States and its allies. This means it is necessary to warm up a card that addressed the question of debt and undeveloped world slaughterhouses in which we could burn too. Possibility to extinguish debts USA without a radical fall in living standards is feasible only on behalf of another, no matter how cynical it sounds. It is necessary to find that, with the help of which America could solve their financial problems. And such a natural solution has been found – history itself gives the chance.
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Putin could have launched a similar election for Novurussia but quite *conveniently* did not!
Does in Crimea – Putin bad
Does not do it in Novorussia – Putin still bad
Putin always bad!!!
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Saker, you are better than this! You continue the fallacy of reducing my carefully nuanced comments to simple bullets.
Yes, the way Putin did it in Crimea was questionable. Yes, he was inconsistent in Novorussia. No contortions needed: It is a simple statement of opportunism, which you insist on misrepresenting.
Some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time. Your reductionism is the same kind of thing the Western Media does when faced with a position it does not like, I am very sorry to say.
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I throw in the towel in complete disgust with that kind of intellectual contortionism..
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As you yourself said:
“Anger and disgust are impediments to informed, fact based and logical thinking while hyperbole is no substitute for a good argument.”
Not agreeing with my position is no excuse for misrepresentation and ad hominem attack.
Anyway, I give up trying to be reasonable and nuanced with you; it seems only ideological rigidity and absolutes are allowed, which makes *me* very sad. The real world is much richer than that.
Peace and Justice
ISHAMID said, “Frankly, I’m disgusted with this level of pagan/nationalist/political opportunism on Putin’s part.” [regarding the special meaning of Crimea to Russians.]
Ishamid, I think perhaps “pagan” is the wrong word, don’t you? All nations have histories. I don’t know why referring to an element of Russian history would “disgust” you. He’s not citing Russian sacred roots as the reason for enabling Crimea to have their referendum, you know.
Ishamid was a sophisticated troll deigned just for the Saker.
Please don’t take their bait.
There’s a lot of folks talking stuff they don’t know much about.
Must be auditioning for the U.S. State Department.
@ Ann
“hatred of Putin” .. “propaganda of the western media”
From my first comment, an axiom:
“I generally support Putin over the West — and definitely over the buffoons occupying Kiev”
And yes, I consider Putin a political opportunist as well. But that is secondary to the axiom in the context of this discussion.
@Penelope:
“I think perhaps “pagan” is the wrong word, don’t you?”
It is my position that nationalism in the modern post-“Enlightenment” sense is a form of neo-paganism (even Nietzsche would agree). Anyway, it’s a philosophical position that needs some discussion that I have no time for at the moment, but Saker and I have discussed it over the years…
Peace
Read article “TTIP or War”
http://afinabul.blog.cz/1412/bud-ttip-alebo-vojna
For translator, language is Czech.
It is worse than one can realize. It is hard to say if it is fiction or conspiracy a la Protocols or Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars.
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml
There is some fragments from this, can be find under American Dollar Rescue Strategy.
http://en.cyplive.com/ru/news/amerikanskaya-strategiya-spaseniya-dollara-razorvat-ekonomicheskoe-sotrudnichestvo-rossii-i-evropy-c.html
But it is brutal
@ Penelope:
“He’s not citing Russian sacred roots”
Putin:
“invaluable civilisational and even sacral importance for Russia, like the Temple Mount in Jerusalem for the followers of Islam and Judaism.”
As Saker would say,
QED
;-)
Peace
PS. This is my last contribution to this topic. Thanks, Ann and Penelope, for your comments and criticism.
Ishamid,
Putin did not have the same easy path in Novorossiya that he did in the Crimea. The Crimean parliament voted for it, the Russian military there prevented the Ukrainian military from disrupting it, the access points into the Crimea were relatively easy to block off, and the local oligarch seemed to support the whole thing. Compare that with, say, Odessa or Donetsk.
Surely, you can see this, and also realize that Russia had no choice but to keep the Crimean fleet.
German Vice Chancellor Zigmar Gabriel: ‘Germany will never allow Ukraine to be admitted into NATO. US has been putting pressure on Germany, but on the Federal level at least such decision will not pass as this would destabilize the situation even further. Germany needs to do what Austria is suggesting – engage new channels for negotiations with Russia. Internal Ukraine conflict is aggravated by Ukraine’s conflict with Russia. Ukraine’s internal conflict cannot be solved without solving a conflict with Russia. It seems to me that we all in Europe, Germany can’t do it alone, have to formulate a new policy towards Russia. We are not giving up on the idea of a European Russia. We have to be united in this and we are very interested in Russia being a part of Europe. We can’t afford Europe’s division because of the Russia issue.’
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/german-vice-chancellor-no-ukraine-in-nato-russia-lets-make-up/
Germany is the main enemy of Russia. Alexander Parvus alias Israel Helphand made strategy for Bolshevics
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/06/germ-j24.html
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/14/schr-m14.html
Saker it is essays like this one that keeps me coming back. I agree completely. You reference your piece from March 1, 2014. That was also excellent. At that time you wrote:
The next necessary step is to spot [stop?] the nationalists from trying to seize further buildings in the east and southern Ukraine.
At that time I agreed with that sentiment. It seemed that seizing buildings would be very provocative. But the people in east and southern Ukraine did just that. Once that happened they deserved our support. Funny how that works — even if we do not agree with the tactics employed at any given time it is not our choice — the choice was up to the Donbas people. And they deserve our support today even if it results, yet again, in full scale civil war which we all didn’t want to see happen in the first place.
Starikov’s book in pdf form to read online:
Rouble Nationalization – the Way to Russia’s Freedom
One can find it on Amazon but in the US and UK it’s over $60. Talk about sanctions. I can’t believe much of this gets back to Nikolay. One day the chance will come to donate money to him directly, or at least thank him personally, ideally in a Saker comment thread ;)
It was war, I’ll tell him, we took our supplies as we found them.
I also thought Putin’s Temple Mount / Crimea comparison was very bizarre, but not for the same reason as ishamid.
Putin used a highly contended religious site that’s currently under illegal occupation by a supremacist State – a site which the UN long ago and for good reason determined should be under international control – as a valid comparison with Crimea.
If a comparison that Westerners might understand is required to convey the idea that Crimea is indubitably Russian, how about The Isle of Wight (for the UK), or Alaska (for Americans)?
IMO bringing the tortuous and quite unique case of Jerusalem into a discussion about Crimea adds only confusion.
Westerners tend to see the world through well brainwashed eyes. And they have poor vision. Dont let them fool you or anybody else in the rest of the world, deep down they are racist and think they are above all others. This arrogance is bred into them so well that they cannot even stay at peace with each other.
Putin wastes his time speaking to them, I would just line up all my subs and nuke the lot.
Bloomberg
Russian Spy Chief Blames U.S., EU for Ruble, Oil Price Collapse
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-04/russian-spy-chief-blames-u-s-eu-for-ruble-oil-price-collapse.html
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Does anybody know how to get full interview?
Bloomberg is able to distort any statement and any word.
I trust them nothing.
once Nazi, today Natoist
Syd Walker
I doubt Putin was referring to the occupation. He was referring to history..
Ishamid. I can sympathize with your frustration at the world the way it is. But there’s only one way out for the world, at least in the short term… and that way happens to lie in front of Putin. So bashing him is a double insult to all of us here…really, you know that!! and your frustration with the world in general is making you bash us through bashing Putin, who is the only short term hope for peace now. Long term…centuries or never…human beings have to grow up fast, otherwise the evolution of humanity might enter other tracks…not to follow the divine’s tracks…
Syd,
Do Brits consider the Isle of Wight where their historical soul comes from? As for Alaska, shouldn’t that be returned to its rightful owner, Russia? Or, as a compromise, the UN?