by Generation 1990
This writing is dedicated as a reply from someone from “opposite camp” to Ahmed and his article named as a “Response from a Bosnian Muslim” which can be found here: http://sakerlatam.blog/the-saker-files/response-from-a-bosnian-Muslim/ . Although I believe that Ahmed’s intention was giving point of view from someone in Bosnian Muslim perspective he failed to shed light to important facts. I was born in Belgrade in 1990, to be precise on 21st November, the day on which Daytona agreement was signed five years later. I must emphasize this, so that readers should realize that I have nothing to do with that civil war, yet it haunts me to this day in a manner like Ahmed’s response on which I am replying.
So where to start? It is incomplete to start in the eve of civil wars in Yugoslavia because of previous history in World War 2 where a majority of Muslims were fighting for Germans. So we should start from a period before World War 1 to get a grip on processes some of which are in place even today.
Intro
During the Ottoman rule of Bosnia (1463-1878) a large number of population was Islamized, some of them by force and a lot more by preferences and incentives given by Ottoman rule. The population there was of South Slavs origin and spoke the same language as it was spoken in that time Serbia. Even king of Bosnia considered himself as a king of Serbs[1]. Islamization was not confined in Bosnia only, but it also took place in Turkish province of Sanjak, which covers part of Raska in Serbia and northern parts of modern day Montenegro. So there was a situation where two brothers have different religions and keep their last names which can be found even today. A lot of older Muslims in Bosnia know their old saint patrons from Christian times, for which Serbs organize slava[2]. Those who didn’t join the “true religion” found their lives a lot harder and I am not going to list the things because this isn’t a forum for self pity, only for facts. For those who want to find I suggest a strong stomach before. Since those medieval times this was a process which took place and it lasted until Austro-Hungaria first occupied in 1878 and then annexed it in 1908 which started a crisis which led to WW1.
Austro-Hungaria organized a census in which it stated that a majority of population was orthodox Christian[3], which was confirmed in 1910 census (42% orthodox, 32% Muslims, 22% Catholics) and 1921 and 1932 in kingdom of Yugoslavia. That trend lasted until 1971[4] census where there was a huge shift of demographics in favor of Muslim population. Since then there was a steady relative balance between different religious populations. However I must emphasize that during Austrian rule a vast majority of population declared themselves as Serbs, that includes Muslim population. During communist times Muslims were subjected to another round of incentives to not declare as Serbs, but rather as Muslim with a large M. Some of them declared as Yugoslavs, however mass of Yugoslavs in census were in fact orthodox Serbs.
So there were no Bosniaks, no Bosnians only Muslims and muslims and Yugoslavs. Some of Muslims declared themselves as Serbs as did Alija Izetbegovic which is ironic because of his later achievements. I am NOT here trying to go hegemonic to all Muslims in Bosnia, just showing how nation-building is taking place. As for Alija Izetbegovic he wrote his famous “Islamic declaration”[5] for which he was incarcerated, yet a lot of prominent Serbs agitated for his release. That was the atmosphere in Belgrade and in minds of lot of Serbs. After all Serbs built Yugoslavia with humongous sacrifices in two world wars and considered it a home for all southern Slavs and themselves as well.
War in Bosnia
During the economic crisis in Yugoslavia a lot of differences showed and the worst was a cultural misery in people which was mostly emphasized in Bosnia. Orthodox Christians clung for their ancestral background as Serbs, but Muslims were an easy prey for “nation-builders” and “state-builders” because of their disorientation in cultural, religious and ancestral view. They felt as they didn’t belong there or that others were just about to start a hunt for them. This instigated mass fear perpetuated by rumors and clamor by new party leaders in new multiparty system. As Ahmed wrote Izetbegovic didn’t win the popular vote, but rather seized it in some under-the-table fashion. He had his followers, armed thugs and foreign support and the stage was set for destabilization.
There was a political crisis following the economic crisis which soon turned to security crisis. The situation in Bosnia and in Croatia was electrified. Political systems required consent of Serbs in both republics as they were constituent nation in both states within Yugoslavia. In Croatia Serbs were first declared as a minority without their consent and in such conditions held the referendum of secession. The similar pattern was used in Bosnia, just that Serbs were boycotting plebiscite thus making any result void. That didn’t stop anyone anything. So there we have “a known criminal” Radovan Karadzic pleading[6] Muslim and croat representatives in Parliament to reconsider their course of actions (there are English subtitles). In that speech we can see almost prophetical words considering the future of Muslims.(his words go beyond that moment)
The war started in Sarajevo where a criminal Ramiz Delalic Celo[7] shot and killed wedding guest on Serb wedding. He was a close associate of Izetbegovic so it would be reasonable to assume that this was not some incident, but rather a provocation similar to sniper shots in Kiev last year. It was used for galvanization and speeding up the events. There were FIVE (5) rounds of negotiations for a political solution of Bosnian crisis, each time the Serbs gave concessions for a compromise. Each time Alija Izetbegovic met with Zimmerman, US ambassador in Yugloslavia and then revoked his signature. So in essence, yes this war was started and planned all along by evil Serbs and they were relentless in achieving their sinister goals.(sic)
During that war disinformation campaign or propaganda was in full throttle going world wide through CNN and BBC. They failed to see mass exodus of Serbs from Croatia in 1995 (estimate of minimum 250.000 people) or brutal massacres of Serbs in demilitarized UN zone of Srebrenica which was going on from 1992 to 1995 where over 3.500 Serbs aged from 0 to 90, male and female, were tortured, raped and killed. No one speaks of mass rapes and tortures in Sarajevo where Muslim neighbors turned against their Serb neighbors without any reason other than that they were orthodox Serbs. (and I am not exaggerating, testimonies are available in Laza Lazarevic mental institute in Belgrade)
That propaganda went so far in declaring victims for criminals and vice versa that its culmination is in, by my opinion, this Times cover.
This was a Serb, Gvozden Konjovic if I recall, in humanitarian camp (contact Pecat magazine in Serbia for exact information), look what is written in bottom right corner or how that wire could possibly stop so many “prisoners”.
This was Fikret Alic, a man still alive and well. As it can be seen he didn’t sustain any injuries in that “concentration camp”, furthermore the reporters who shot that picture put themselves in the cage so it would make an impression of a prisoner camp. (contact pecat magazine in Serbia for exact information).
That kind of approach gave Bosnian Muslims victim status to which they cling on to this very day. This created their collective psychological state where they are the ultimate victims so they cannot be guilty of anything. Furthermore this dehumanizes Serbs so that everything is allowed against them, so we have statements of US senators and congressmen how Serbs should be put in concentration camps, that they are barbarians, savages etc, etc. All humanitarian words from humanitarian country.
The war was rampaging and criminals on both sides, which were nominally fighting against each other, traded food, ammo, weapons and medicine taking money from people for which they were nominally fighting for. Although it would be nice to say that criminals were present on both sides and even nicer that they were present in the same scale, that was not the case. Serbs had organized their army in what was known as Army of Republika Srpska with prominent and authoritative leader who has proven himself in bravery (mine dismantle) and expertise (first in class in military academy). His name is Ratko Mladic and he is mostly meritorious for low army casualties and disproportionately large wartime territory on Serb side. As for Muslim side, they were fighting between themselves and then against Serbs and Croats (until 1993).
Official (NATO) truth says that general Ratko Mladic is responsible or at least accountable for Srebrenica massacre. Furthermore that in that occasion more than 9000 Muslim males were executed within timeframe of 2 days by eight “trusted” perpetrators such as Drazen Erdemovic[8]. What Ahmed failed to say was that all and I mean ALL perpetrators are today located in NATO countries, some of them with new identities. Needless to say that such undertaking as killing 9000 men is impossible to do in such short period of time, but to say that everyone who testified in Hague tribunal as those who committed that “genocide” are free – speaks more words than millions of words and books such as Germinal Chivikov in his “Crown witness” or Edward Herman, Noam Chomsky or even Efraim Zuroff[9] a director of Simon Wiesenthal centre. As for Srebrenica “genocide” it will collapse under the burden of its own lies. As for Ratko Mladic he is hated because he disarmed Duch soldiers and tied them to poles in their underwear plus ordered the capture of some other French soldiers. That was because of no demilitarization of Muslims was ever made in Srebrenica where they made their continuous despicable campaign.
As for stating that there was an aggression from Serbia in place, that is complete and utter nonsense. If Serbs had any intention of exterminating Muslims they would have started in their own home, where over 200.000 Muslim lived and still live here today. That did not happen, Serbia was a safe haven for Muslims from Bosnia during the civil war. Sarajevo had a quarter of its population Serbs, today it doesen’t have any Serbs. Banjaluka, capital of Republika Srpska, still has Muslims living there over 10% as it was before the war. We cannot state exact data because of political obstruction from official Sarajevo about holding the census. It would crush entire propaganda about who made ethnic cleansing, in what scale and where.
There are testimonies about Srebrenica, Alija Izetbegovic and Bill Clinton connection regarding the fact that US needed some symbolic event so it could launch “peace” campaign in Bosnia. Testimonies made by those not alive today and the man who was governor of Srebrenica at that time (interested look for Camil Durakovic). Today’s undisputable fact is that “Srebrenica” is the word needed for “humanitarian” interventions across the globe, be it in Libya, Syria or Kosovo and Metohy – it is a prime excuse. It is also a fine instrument of moral blackmail of Serb representatives in Bosnia for some more concessions in achieving total exclusion of Serbs in Bosnia, the very reason why war started in the first place.
The future of Bosnia is no more lighter than the past. If the past holds mass killings in wars and poverty the future holds peaceful mass murder in economic wars and poverty. I know for a fact that Serbs in Bosnia will not go for a third round with their Muslim and catholic neighbors, rather they will seek to preserve their republic and secede in first occasion given. Is that achievable is another story, but nothing will ever again be the same in hearts and minds of people who survived. I am afraid that this continuation of war propaganda which some “bright” people are trying to put in school books is no more than a preparation for another round of wars when the West necessitates.
I believe that this, shorten to the max, writing is enough to shed light to sequence of events in Bosnia about the war. I wanted to write about post war Bosnia how war goals are still pursued in peace, but that is for some other occasion. And I apologize for using Wikipedia as source of citation, but that is for guidance only, so that anyone interested would know from where to look for what.
Generation 1990.
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- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1879_population_census_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#1961 ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Declaration ↑
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtk5LG8xvfw ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiz_Delali%C4%87 ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Erdemovi%C4%87 ↑
- http://www.tanjug.rs/full-view_en.aspx?izb=184823 ↑
great article covering a slightly different angle to what I wrote. :)
I didn’t manage to read your article until tonight, but yes, we are covering the same topic.
Sorry for that, just that I felt compelled to react. :)
As a muslim living in Bosnia, living during the war in Bosnia, I am trying to find about crimes that muslims did to srbs. There are many crimes and I am not going to count who did more, but wright now I am in search for destroyed churches on muslims held territory during the war. Can someone give me some info please. Thanks
You have some even mentioned in the article. You Bosnians,under the leadership of your hero Naser Oric, have massacred around 3.500 Srbs from Bratunac county. Thwen sarajevo massacres you Bosnians commited agains us. There are mass graves on the banks of Miljacka river. Why are you playing ignorant when you know full well that you have history of massacres you committed against the Sers in the last 500 years — since the time you started being the Turks. In WW2, as loyal Hitler servants, you were having concentration camps for Serbs. You have even committed crimes against Russians, remember the infamous Bosanian Black Legion and so-called Handschar division.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legion_%28Usta%C5%A1e_militia%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_%281st_Croatian%29
They were your Bosnian legion, or Muslim legions as you would say. But I am guessing you don’t remember anything about that, right? That wasn’t your fault, nothing ever is. You are victims always. 500 yrs you were serving Turkish occupators committing crimes against the Serb population, but you don’t remember that as well. It didn’t happen, am I right? And you can see on this example of a Bosnains the mental and phychological shape they have: they would simply force their talk and desires regardless of facts or history. They have no respcet for truth or historical facts. They think they can make it behave the way they want only if they play dumb and stupid and others concede to their wishes.
I forgot to add, that Anglozionist description of Black Legion is not correct at all, and partly Handjar legion too. Commander of the Black Legion was Becir Lokmic, who died very early, but Bosnians very very well “represented” in the commanding posts of the Ustashe (to be correct, they didn’t call themselves Bosnians back then but Croats of Muslim faith; they became Bosnians only in 1993.). Other distinguished Ustashe their commanders were Salih Alikadić, Junuz Ajanović, Muhamedbeg Hromić, Ibrahim Pjanić, Mehmed Riđanović, Muhamed Hadžiefendić, Akif Handžić), and from the Croat sources they had formed around 60 of Ustashe vojnica (meaning soldiers of Ustashe). Many of them, Croats and Bosnians, have died under Stalingrad.
Nowaways they are having the dream of making their own Bosnian nation, aided and abbeted by the AngloAmerican Empire of course, by trying to assimilate Serbian and Croat population in that Western colony called Bosnia and Herzegovina (which none but them wants btw; they didn’t want to live peacefully with us in Yugoslavia, but now they want to live in that Western colony, and sooner or later that Western colony, which was created without the approval and against the wishes of Serbian and Croat population, is going to end; you cannot force someone to live in oppressors’ creations forever after all), but guess under which banner they are having their fantasy of assimilation? Under the banner of Tvrtko Kotromanic who declared himself a proud Serb coming from Serbian family. But it gets even crazier. That banner of Kotromanic (he was Catholic you see) is fleur-de-lis (here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur-de-lis#/media/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_%281992-1998%29.svg) and as we all know fleur-de-lis represents Holy trinity in Christianity (because it the lilies are coming in the shape of the cross as you can see on the image, which is also why they are arriving in the pairs of three – again symbolizing Holy Trinity. You see how they Muslims see nothing wrong in taking for themselves essentially Christian coat of arms. They don’t see anything wrong anywhere if there is something they can get out of it… if it serves their interests. But perhaps it is their own religion’s morality at work there, as Muhamed saws in Quran practically encourages Muslims to lie and deceive “infidels” if there is some profit for a Muslim there.
That should not be to hard to find. From the Serbian nurses tortured and murdered on Mount Igman, to the Serbian villages around Srebrenica which were burned and its people massacred, there are plenty of well established atrocities committed by the Muslims, though probably not more than atrocities committed by the Croats and Serbs. For political reasons the atrocities committed by the Muslims were suppressed, but I am sure that you can find all the info you need online, especially if you speak Serbo-Croatian.
Good luck,
The Saker
I remember seeing a story on TV back then (I guess the MSM wasn’t totally sold out at that time) about the Mostar area.It was during the Bosniak-Croat fighting.And talked of a Croat general whose men slaughtered Bosniak civilians with a flame-thrower.At least that was one they didn’t blame the Serbs for.
To The Saker, you should stop these post that insults Islam and Muhamed
( “Muhamed saws in Quran practically encourages Muslims to lie and deceive “infidels” if there is some profit for a Muslim there”)
Imran Hosein is calling you a friend and othodox christiana Brothera and you let peaple write such things on your site? Not nice
You are right. I shouldn’t have said that. Muslims, just like all the others, have different kind of ethics, rules and principles for their kind and different for others. And it should be that way, and I am not asking the same treatment Muslims would give to their fellow Muslim. I have no right to criticize Muslim rules, plus you Bosnians are no Muslims anyway. You are just pretending to be ones because vast majority of you are atheists, and your morality is the Western one. I reallly, really doubt true Muslims would take Christian religious banner to “represent” them, but you Bosnians do, although you do pretend to be Muslims too.
Here is a youtube video which shows Bosniak army members inside an Orthodox Church and shooting up the inside. They are joking and laughing the whole time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiAQF7_GhpA
@ domacin.
Here are a few links that may help you in this area of research from the war.
This is from Michel Chossudovsky at a presentation in Ottowa, April 11th 1999 called:
‘IMPACTS OF NATO’S “HUMANITARIAN” BOMBINGS,
THE BALANCE SHEET OF DESTRUCTION IN YUGOSLAVIA’
http://rrojasdatabank.info/agfrank/nato_kosovo/msg00055.html
It gives a few figures from the war, but is quite general.
I recommend these two for more in depth/background information with pictures of the damage, with an intro by Carl K. Savich, December, 2002 called:
‘The Systematic Destruction of Orthodox Christian Churches and Cemeteries in Kosovo-Metohija and Macedonia’
http://kosovo.net/systematic_destruction.html
http://kosovo.net/destruction.html
This second Kosovo link has a good list of other links you may find useful.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Susie
Nasir Oric bragged about his war crimes against the Serb population when he met Western journalists and even showed videos of it like ISIS today.
“We killed 114 Serbs there.”
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/oric.htm
“The prisoners were given knives and ordered to kill each other. “If you don’t kill him, I’ll kill you,” the Mujahedeen told freaked out men who then knifed each other. Once they fell from wounds, Mujahedeen would decapitate them, with cleavers or chain saws, and those who were still alive were forced to kiss severed heads that were later nailed to the tree trunks. Prisoners were hung upside down by ropes, they were nailed, or the Mujahdeen tied bricks to their testes and penises and pushed them into barrels where they slowly drowned pulled down by the weight of the bricks.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20040911090322/http://www.ex-yupress.com/slobos/slobos11.html
“Čović said that one woman that was raped several times and suffered more than 200 knife cuts on her body, adding that members of the 505 brigade carved their emblem into her body.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20071207225518/http://www.b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=09&dd=06&nav_category=123&nav_id=36557
“Srebrenica” on the other hand was a provocation planned by Washington and Sarajevo. Like the other false flag massacres staged by the NATO-backed Islamic terrorists under the command of Izetbegovic before, it was a PSYOP to justify NATO bombing raids and sanctions against the Serb people. The same war strategies of NATO in the Balkan wars (false flag massacres, nazi death squads, genocide) are now applied against the Russian people.
“Srebrenica Planned in Washington and Sarajevo”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1a-_LzxDyE
“Canadian (UN) soldier testimonies from book : The Sharp End” by James D. Davis
…
Bosnians murdered their own people in well-staged attacks for PR reasons”
http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=/content/testimonies/wctu/wctu02.incl
“Self-Inflicted Atrocities”
http://web.archive.org/web/20040812211736/http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm
“Labeling the Serbs as Nazis
The Role of Ruder Finn, a US-Public Relation Firm”
http://www.shofar.de/labeling-e.html
look on old archives articles by Jared Israel of emperors clothes
It will be easy. Find a map of pre-1995 that marks Serbian churches/monastaries, get in your car and drive around. Being muslim you can probably have a fairly easy time in KiM. Your eyes should give you all the evidnce you need.
That was an excellent article by “Generation 1990”. It was an excellent clarification of the distortions we’ve been fed by the criminals in the MSM (like that hag Christiane Amanpour) about really happened in Bosnia and the rest of Yugoslavia.
I can’t tell you how closely what Generation-1990 has written matches the experience and results of other places that the slime of Western Europe engineered partitions. Partitions that were engineered by ginning up fear in the Muslim section of society and then arming, inflaming and instigating them into violently demanding separation. The end results were the same too: the non-Muslim minorities in the newly created Western created Muslim satrapy were reduced to near zero while the percentage of Muslims in the lands of the so-called “allegedly oppressive” indigenous majority stayed the same as before partition.
It also fits perfectly with the 1984 style “inversion-propaganda” we’ve seen the Western propaganda machine engage in all those situations and now in Novorossiya: where the victims are portrayed as the perpetrators, where the crimes of the side sponsored by scum in London, Paris, etc. are attributed to the indigenous side which were/are fighting for their lives.
I can’t tell you how true Generation-1990’s words ring true to me and how sick we felt in my homeland when we saw what was being done to the Serbs in Yugoslavia and Bosnia (we knew, we knew, we knew: because it had been done to us in the years leading up to 1948).
Excellent article. I remember reading articles few years after the incidents regarding the events. The articles were written by mostly Americans. Unfortunately I can’t provide any links. Never the less, I suspect that if someone is really adamant about finding the info it can be found.
First of all, articles about massacres presumable conducted by Serbs flooded the media, but shortly after different articles appeared, which written by people who were actually conducting the searches for mass graves. The results, were totally in reverse as no mass graves were found neither in Bosnia nor Kosovo. Actually many bodies were identified as Serbs, but as they say “who cares” it was after the fact of dismemberment of Yugoslavia.
“Today’s undisputable fact is that “Srebrenica” is the word needed for “humanitarian” interventions across the globe, be it in Libya, Syria or Kosovo and Metohy – it is a prime excuse.”
“I am afraid that this continuation of war propaganda which some “bright” people are trying to put in school books is no more than a preparation for another round of wars when the West necessitates.”
The zionazi-fascist oligarchy running “the west” used Yugoslavia as a prototype to hone their “war is peace” R2P propaganda for aggressive war making and to bring war back to Europe again (among other reasons). A necessary step to over come Europe’s acquired pacifism in order to run the ZPC/NWO aggressive wars planned to gobble up the rest of the world – especially Russia and Asia.
The Rusians just blocked the latest move by the ZPC/NWO (using their thoroughly zio-leashed Brit colony) in the UNSC:
Russia Regrets UK Insisted on Srebrenica Resolution Vote in UNSC
Russia vetoed the resolution which is aimed at condemning the killings as a crime of genocide earlier in the day. Ten members of the Council voted in favor of the document, while China, Angola, Nigeria and Venezuela abstained.
“We regret that Britain insisted on a vote, despite our repeated warnings and concerns expressed to the UNSC from the Balkan region regarding the consequences of adopting the draft,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
“It is clear that the document, as it was presented, was unacceptable due to its political motivation, lack of balance, and its harmful nature in regard to the national reconciliation process in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Balkan region as a whole,” the statement reads.
Interesting Nigeria abstained, given the regime there is effectively an occupied colony of the USA.
Good point that you noticed that Nigeria abstained, add to that that Nigeria’s current leader is a Muslim (Bukhari) and that really sends a message doesn’t it?
Glad to see that their leader doesn’t see the world thru religious blinders but suspects mischief and the standard British establishment hypocrisy in this fraudulent resolution.
So in Yugoslavia and now in Ukraine, NATO supports the sides who supported the Nazis during WW2. Very interesting.
=This was a Serb, Gvozden Konjovic if I recall, in humanitarian camp (contact Pecat magazine in Serbia for exact information), look what is written in bottom right corner or how that wire could possibly stop so many “prisoners”.=
No, that was Fikret Alic, who is still alive, living in Scandinavia, and has a family – a wife and at least one son.
You are thinking of another one – a middle-aged man who was a Serbs and pictures of him were taken in the winter (when it was cold) – he was recognized by his Serbian sister. So they DID use pictures of Serbs in camps and say they were Muslims, but this TIME picture was of a Muslim.
But as I said, he is alive an perfectly well.
He was also the only real skinny one at the center and was brought forward when the Muslims noticed the British reporter, Penny Marshall, kept looking for skinny people, so he was pushed up to her cameras.
And he was naturally skinny at the time – he had some congenital deformation of his skeletal frame – you can see that. There are no injuries on him.
Also, he was found to have recurring Tuberculosis, a few months after the picture.
See, the publicity of these detention centers made the Serbs release everyone, and Fikret Alic became a soldier, but started coughing up blood and was diagnosed with Tuberculosis, which he’d had before.
Furthermore, they are not surrounded by a fence – it is the film crew who put themselves behind a dilapidated fence surrounded an agricultural shed (and there’s also a wheelbarrow in photos of the crew) and shot the people through the fence – even though the film crew was able to be directly with them – and in fact was with them at other parts during the tour – when they were inside the buildings interviewing the Muslims and watching them eat.
The fence was mostly chicken wire and had a few sagging strands of barbed wire on top – they filmed through that.
The fence also had a huge gap – broken down section – and that’s what the film crew used to walk through and get behind it.
So it’s the film crew inside the fence (which had a large torn down part) and having the Muslims in an open area gather around to answer questions.
Thomas Deichmann, a German journalist, was the first who wrote about this camp and discovered that the British crew actually went inside the fence in order to produce fake photos (the same crew was accompanied by Serbian TV, so there is a footage showing British crew at work, but none in the West wanted to show it). Deichmann is a German, but his articles were never published in Germany. Moreover, because of his refusal to get “embedded” he was given such a hard time by the authorities and institutions in Germany, that he eventually was forced to give up journalism. I believe it is a good idea to contact Thomas and possibly publish some of his articles related to NATO war against Serbs.
There was a Pecat magazine cover with Times cover as a cover and it was this one.
I read it long time ago, so long that I even don’t read Pecat anymore… :)
This was from my memory, so there were no footnotes. Regrettably I should have researched more thoroughly, now I see you are right and I am glad for your comment.
The point was about propaganda lies and one-sided reporting.
I hope that it is possible to make changes so that it wouldn’t stay in this, wrong-in-facts state.
Thanks again. :)
Dear Saker,
As Jomo has correctly pointed out, the picture in text is the wrong one. Since I failed to find the right picture, correction should go this way:
The sentence “This was a Serb, Gvozden Konjovic if I recall, in humanitarian camp (contact Pecat magazine in Serbia for exact information), look what is written in bottom right corner or how that wire could possibly stop so many “prisoners”” should be replaced with: “This was Fikret Alic, a man still alive and well. As it can be seen he didn’t sustain any injuries in that “concentration camp”, furthermore the reporters who shot that picture put themselves in the cage so it would make an impression of a prisoner camp. (contact pecat magazine in Serbia for exact information)”
Note: There is a picture I was writing about, however, as I mentioned, I failed to find it.
I am so sorry for the mistake.
No problem at all, we are all human and doing this on our free time :-)
I did strike out the mistaken sentence and made the change you requested.
Tons of thanks and cheers!
The Saker
Generation 1990. Here on youtube in 3 parts (each part is less than 10 minutes) you can see “Judgment!” which is a little documentary which exposes how the ITN created the hoax. (And as for getting people confused – I do it too. (I remember Fikret Alic’s name because it is similar to Fikret Abdic, who was the real winner of the election just before the Bosnian war – he was a moderate but in some kind of “backroom deal” he agreed to let Alija Izetbegovic attain presidency. Alija Izetbegovic was an unelected president. So due to Fikret Abdic, and that I know about him, it helps me remember the name of the super skinny guy. (And I’ll bet pictures of him BEFORE the war, he was skinny like that. Many adolescent and young Balkan men can be very skinny naturally. Novak Djokovic is naturally skinny, and I think one of the Croat top tennis players is very skinny too. Recent pictures show he’s gained a lot of weight, but it all goes to his lower stomach – his chest still looks hollowed out/concave but its hard to tell as he wears loose sweaters and the like in photos.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xox7TR11evI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEQpUlh51xU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPiAWbIbAyM
Missing much in the article, but the gist of it is about right.
One important thing to corect: that Times cover was a proven fake, it was shot from INSIDE the fence and the people were outside. A complete fallacy.
There is hard proof too – a video from serbian TV, they shot a vid of the western TV-Team while they filmed this hoax: http://www.emperors-clothes.com/film/judgment.htm
That’s a very interesting site. Very preoccupied about anti-semitism, and finding a lot of it, even in places where others would say there wasn’t any.
I guess it depends on which “others” you’re referring to.
By “others” I am referring to the people who are not preoccupied with looking for anti-semitism.
Well Jared Israel is Jewish, but a strong debunker of what was going on in Yugoslavia and against Serbs.
Of course he will be partial to Israel, but fact is I am mainly interested in the Balkans.
He is one of the few, but strong, defenders of Serbs who is Jewish, while many of the mainstream ones have been big propagandists against Serbs.
Another good defender of Serbs and the truth is Julia Gorin.
And the focus should be on this particular piece which exposes the lying propaganda.
Here you go, the mentioned video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xox7TR11evI
Thanks for the video, although I only watched about three minutes because my Google tablet doesn’t play well with Google utube (go figure). I remember that the photo was debunked at the time, but I was always under the impression that it was shot by American Penny Marshall. I’m somewhat relieved to discover it was actually some evil British whore, and not Laverne and Shirley that helped destroy Yugoslavia for the NWO. That was the crime for which Bill Clinton should have been impeached, in a more just and less-stupid world!
Just goes to show: WAR is HELL, and Civil Wars are just as bad as wars between nations ( or, they end up creating new nations or making extinct old nations).
To Russia with love
I have my moments of rebellion, as any human should, but I have never felt that my view of life is divergent. Today, the other feeling of gratitude is even bigger … I have no words . To sacrifice themselves for the sake of another, it is the culmination of humanity. There are not enough words of gratitude to brotherly Russia, no ! We will return . Eventually
Bosnian Muslim leaders were major Nazi collaborators during World War II and the Holocaust. They were complicit in and participated in the Ustasha genocide committed against Serbs, Jews, and Roma. They demanded to be allies of Nazi Germany and formed two Nazi SS Divisions during the war.
http://serbianna.com/analysis/archives/1214
I’m not sure about “demanded to be allies of nazi Germany”.It was more of a case of “save my ass”.The Croats and nazis were happy to have them (the Croats to consider them long lost Croats.And the nazis because Hitler admired them as soldiers from WWI).And for the Bosniaks,they didn’t care much for the Serbs anyway.And saw from what the Ustase and nazis were doing to the Serbs what happened to those that opposed them.There were also Bosniaks that joined the Partisans.And a couple of famous revolts by Bosniak soldiers against the nazis.So it wasn’t a one-way street.Which is true of the Croats as well.Many supported the Ustase (to their eternal shame),but many didn’t as well.There were even a few Serbs (very few,but still some) that supported the nazis.Not the Ustase,but supported the nazis.World War II in “Yugoslavia” was full to overflowing with,good guys,bad guys,and all types in-between
No, the islamo-fascists always loved joining the european fascists.
In case of Bosnia, it was the “Mufti of Jerusalem” al-Husseini who went there and organized the whole thing there. And who was saved and brought out of the country by the british (of course, him being their creation) after the war.
The Mufti was an Egyptian raised by the salafists, by the way.
“Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the grandson of Muhammad.”
“Amin al-Husseini was born around 1897[15] in Jerusalem, the son of the mufti of that city and prominent early opponent of Zionism, Tahir al-Husayni.[16] The al-Husseini clan consisted of wealthy landowners in southern Palestine, centered around the district of Jerusalem. Thirteen members of the clan had been Mayors of Jerusalem between 1864 and 1920. Another member of the clan and Amin’s half-brother,[17] Kamil al-Husayni, also served as Mufti of Jerusalem.”
“Husayni (Arabic: الحسيني also spelled Husseini) is the name of a prominent Palestinian Arab clan formerly based in Jerusalem, which claims descent from Husayn ibn Ali (the son of Ali).”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Husayni_clan
Ok, correction accepted regarding place of birth. But then the next quotes from the same page confirms the rest:
“In 1912 he studied Islamic law briefly at Al-Azhar University in Cairo and at the Dar al-Da’wa wa-l-Irshad, under Rashid Rida, a salafi intellectual, who was to remain Amin’s mentor till his death in 1935.[20] Though groomed to hold religious office from youth, his education was typical of the Ottoman effendi at the time, and he only donned a religious turban in 1921 after being appointed mufti.[18]”
So you are saying he was a Muslim,educated at one of the most important Muslim schools of the time.Is that supposed to surprise.You seem to consider that a “bad thing”.
“The Salafi movement or Salafist movement is an ultra-conservative movement within Sunni Islam that references the doctrine known as Salafism. The doctrine can be summed up as taking “a fundamentalist approach to Islam, emulating the Prophet Muhammad and his earliest followers—al-salaf al-salih, the ‘pious forefathers’…They reject religious innovation, or bida, and support the implementation of sharia (Islamic law).”[1] The movement is often divided into three categories: the largest group are the purists (or quietists), who avoid politics; the second largest group are the activists, who get involved in politics; the smallest group are the jihadists, who form a tiny (yet infamous) minority.[2]”
My point isn’t to defend him.I don’t like him at all.My point is that he wasn’t a “nazi” as such.You don’t have to be a nazi to be a bad guy in the World.While nazis are bad guys.They are certainly not alone there.There were among Zionists during the war groups that tried to get an alliance with the nazis against the British.There were Arabs that also wanted an alliance with the nazis against the British.That doesn’t make either group “nazi”.It makes both groups “opportunists”.Both willing to use the nazis to further their separate purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement
http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2012/07/death-of-israels-pro-nazi-prime.html
[Intent of line was to be offensive. Redacted.]
“Amin Al-Husseini is main organizer of riots. [xvii] He organizes suicide squads against the local authorities. Applies Nazi methodology of “systematic extermination” of any Arab suspected of less than total loyalty to Pan-Islamic vision of Muslim Brotherhood.
Any “non-Islamic” element is a threat to his Pan-Islamic vision.
Many Muslim and Christian Palestinian intellectual leaders and clerics assassinated for protesting Husseini’s Islamic terror.
1936-1938. Murdered by Husseini’s men:
Sheikh Daoud Ansari ( Imam of Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Ali Nur el Khattib (Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Nusbi Abdal Rahim (Council of Muslim Religious Court), Sheikh Abdul el Badoui (Acre, Palestine), Sheikh El Namouri (Hebron), Nasr El Din Nassr (Mayor of Hebron). Between Feb. 1937 and Nov 1938, Eleven (11) Mukhtars (community leaders) and their entire families slain by Amin al Husseini’s men.”
Not much of a patriot IMO.
T2015
You will need to start to start sourcing your comment material
Not like anyone would really bother reading, checking or proving the sources, but just for the sake of it, here you go:
[ The link to the article you got your original comment from would do, thank you. A list of 37 books (one of them in 15 volumes) is not an adequate source. It seems to be the bibliography from that article. Posting such a list is pure trolling. Please don’t do it again.~~ Mod K.K.]
“On November 1, 1942, Uzeir-aga Hadzihasanovic, a prominent member of the pre-war Yugoslavian Muslim Organization (JMO), Mustafa Softic, the wartime mayor of Sarajevo, and Suljaga Salihagic of Banja Luka, wrote the “Memorandum of the National Muslim Committee” which they sent to Adolf Hitler requesting that Bosnian Muslims be made a part of the Nazi New Order in Europe. In this memorandum, Adolf Hitler is referred to as “Our dear leader”. The Bosnian Muslim leaders wanted Adolf Hitler to create a Bosnian Muslim state. They wrote that Serbs and Croats had accused them of being a Fifth Column that “desired and worked to ease the German destruction of Yugoslavia.””
Hitler didn’t make it, but our murrican friends were more successful… what a legacy.
While we’re at it, truth about Srebrenica slowly but surely oozes out:
http://fortruss.blogspot.de/2015/07/ibran-mustafic-we-were-killing-our-own.html
today on an Italian newspaper (Repubblica) there is an article about a Roma guy, Zijo Ribic, who tells an horrible story of whole village massacred by chetniks. I was wondering about this story and about the fact that in any war there are bad guys and good guys (as somebody told before me here in the comments), and that every side has unfortunately its bad guys.
But I was also wondering if this story is true, since information in English is mostly one-way. Is there a source that tells these stories from the serb point of view? Are these murders really to be ascribed to serbian paramilitary groups?
Honestly, I would really like to read an article of a Serb speaking of the crimes of the Serbs and of a Bosniac/Muslim speaking of the crimes of the Bosniacs/Muslims. Sometimes, by reading these articles, I wonder if there is not a (very comprehensible) sort of automatic defense of own groups. And for people like me, reading this from an external point of view, it is very difficult to understand where is truth and where lies.
On Srebrenica things are getting clear, fortunately, but there are a myriad of smaller (and terribly tragic) stories that have no clear responsible. And it would be nice to know that who is guilty of rape, murder, torture, is imprisoned notwithstanding its side. I wonder if the Serbs did this “cleaning”. I am rather sure the other side did not, but are there convicted criminals among the Serbs for war crimes? This would give me the hope that not all the world pardons its war criminals “because it’s war”, or “because they are our boys”.
Sorry for the long comment, and thanks to all for your information work.
The Chetniks were Serbian royalists who under Draza Mihajlovic formed the first organised armed resistance to German occupation in Yugoslavia ( and perhaps Europe ) in WWII.
During the wars of the 1990’s Croats and Bosnian Muslims referred to all Serb militias as being ‘Chetniks’ when if fact they were not.
Draza Mihajlovic was executed by the communists in 1946.
Serb militia in the 1990’s fought to protect their own people but they were rarely monarchists.
Croats and Muslims like to use the term because communist propaganda held the Chetniks as fascist and equally murderous as the Croatian/Muslim Ustashe.
A glance at the the death toll in Bosnia during WWII contradicts that narrative:
72.1% of those killed in Bosnia during WWII were Serbs.
16.5% were Bosnian Muslim and 4.4% were Croats.
The Serbian Chetniks may well have committed reprisal atrocities during WWII but they certainly did not have a program of systematic extermination based on ethnicity or religion or operate death camps as the Croatian Ustashe and their Bosnian Muslim allies did.
One would be naive to think that no Serb militia ever committed atrocities in the 1990’s, but there is a significant difference between acknowledging that outrages were committed by criminal individuals and accepting the false charge that such outrages were regular Serb policy or practice.
In the book “Eastern Approaches” by Fitzroy Maclean, who was a British Intelligence Officer who parachuted into the Balkans and supported Tito’s side – (he was conditioned to be pro-Tito before he even came and stayed supporting him) – though at the end of his book he feels he/they were “tricked by Tito”, and appears upset about Yugoslavia falling under Communism. But Churchill replies to him something like “But *we* aren’t living there, are we?”
While there he witnesses the results of the massacres – villages wiped out and dead civilians, including children he had met and played with days before, killed. I believe these were all ethnic Serb villages.
Anyhow, I noticed at least one or two cases where he blamed “Gypsy Moslems” for the massacre – I’ll have to check out the book again and find the passages and quote them. But I remember it surprised me reading it because you never hear much about the Roma doing much of anything aggressive during the wars.
Now he doesn’t say how he knew they were Gypsy/Romas but some of the ones in Bosnia might have fought with the Muslim side in WWII.
And there were some fighting and committing war crimes against Serbs in the last war.
The ones in Bosnia, have often said anti-Serb things and have prejudices. (Meanwhile they don’t have the trumpet music and bands like the Roma in Serbia & Macedonia.)
And some of them were also settled in the U.S. with the Bosniaks.
Some in the St. Louis area have committed crimes (thefts, violence) – they have Bosniak (Muslim names) but are dark and I think even the Bosnian Muslims said they were Roma.
Just the other day a Bosniak was deported from the U.S. to face trial in Bosnia over tortures of Serbs in a camp – but I noticed he looks quite dark and may in fact be a Roma.
His name is Almaz Nezirovic and the first link is his photo – he looks like a Roma to me (though may not be). The last is a link to the news piece. So what I am saying is that the gypsies aren’t automatically innocent – that some may have partook in warcrimes in WWII and the last one. The guy quoted may be a propagandist and may have even been fighting during the wars.
http://wset.images.worldnow.com/images/14985376_BG1.JPG
http://www.wset.com/story/14985376/roanoke-co-man-accused-of-war-crimes-granted-bond
The only question is why are the british and American spies in form of journalists or amabassafors not taken out or made invalid by the nationalist elements of the targetted goverment?
– Novak Djokovic is SERBIAN.
– i bet if anyone asks this gypsy about mentioned masacre, to show where is that village, how he knows for massacre and where he was in the time of massacre he will ‘not remind’. And i same bet if you gave him 10euros he will sing you the truth you want to believe.
There seems to be a consistent use of word “Bosniak” to describe – an ethnicity? No such thing.
Here’s just a very simple explanation of what exactly is a “Bosniak”. They are Serbs – all of them, whose ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries that all Serb lands were ruled by Ottoman Empire. The funny (and ironic thing) about all of them is that they are likely of purer Serb blood than Serbs in Serbia, because by converting to Islam, their ancestors avoided all kinds of abuses that Orthodox Serbs endured – including common rapes of beautiful Serb women and the “blood tax” (Turks took our children and Islamized them).
After Serbs freed themselves from oppression, these Muslim Serbs were not discriminated or abused. Nope, they were simply made equal to the rest of us. But, without the protection of the patron, they had to endure a new reality where they had to compete for everything on equal terms with former slaves and 2nd class citizens. This is a major factor in their hatred of their own kin. Doesn’t this remind of “Russian Liberals” who view the Russian populace with such contempt, not because they lost anything with the revival of Russia in the past 15 years, but because they no longer have any special privileges under Putin, and must compete on equal terms with everyone else?
“After Serbs freed themselves from oppression, these Muslim Serbs were not discriminated or abused.”
I am very pro-Serbian over the Kosova and “Yugoslav” issue.But lets not go overboard.During the independence wars and after there were massacres of Muslim Slavs by Christian Slavs (as well as during the war the other way too).And all Muslims were expelled from what was then freed Serbia.It was only later that people realized they should not let religion divide them.There was wrong on both sides.But its a fact that the Serbian government should have made an effort (still should) to encourage the Serbian Muslims to see themselves as Serbs only separated by religion.Good faith efforts of assimilating them into Serbdom (while them keeping their religion) has not been made.
Excellent article at Russia Insider regarding the subject at hand:
http://russia-insider.com/en/why-did-russia-veto-british-resolution-srebrenica/ri8634
Thanks for this! My blood ran cohd when I realised who caused the massacre. Of course. Naturally they have been planning to dismantle Russia for generations.
The need to divide and beggar Europe while exquisitely carefully destroying each and every EU basic law had to happen first. US NATO war club machine fully represented in all former Russian satellite nations.
As of today, done.
LOL i just read this and couldn’t be more wrong.Here are just few things.First I’m from Sarajevo a Bosniak to be clear.You talk about how we were islamized under the Ottomans when there are over 1000 reports of Muslim traders from around the world who stopped in Bosnia and Islam was on this part of balkans even before the ottomans.Yes a lot of them did convert to Islam from their own version of christianity called the Bosnian Church which every Christian schooler and institution from around the globe condemned and labeled as heresy.They believed Jesus wasnt god,Rejected Trinity,Rejected virgin birth,and so on Thats why in Vaticans own archives you can read 1000s upon 1000s of reports on Bosnia as a country of devil worshipers and country of non believers also you can find their numerous crusades into Bosnia.Bosnia has nothing to do with serbia or croatia.Bosnia was inhabited by our ancestors Illyrians and before them other cultures dating back thousands of years.Name Bosnia comes from the Illyrian word Bosnia meaning land of rivers or waters.You slavs came here to out native land in the 7th century and conquered it.Killed everything and anything you could find driving the local population almost to extinction.Look up IGENEA report that was done few years ago and see that our genes don’t match at all.Bosnia 55-65% Illyrian DNA while slav being 10%.Serbs keep saying we were serbs that converted to islam well here answer me a single question.Name me a Single Bosnian King Or Queen (thats before islam according to u) that has said I am Serb or We are Serb??Not One.But they did call them self good bosniaks doe Dobri Bosnjani.Now the war.This isn’t the first aggression on Bosniaks by serbs or croats.Bosniaks as a people have faced 10-11 genocides in our history all at the hands of neighbors.The reason you didn’t attack muslims in serbia RIGHT AWAY (you did after Kosova) is because it would have been a disaster for you because you would have had a war pretty much on all sides.Till resonantly there was never a mention of Bosniak Serbs or croats all were called Bosniak meaning the people who inhabit Bosnia.The reason you attacked Bosnia also is wrong.Bosnia was the only country in exYu that lobbied for the state to resolve peacefully and to stay in tact.But the Croats and Serbs Nationalism crossed all lines.Look at 91 and see which country was protesting to save yugoslavia.Under Tito rule our language,our traditions,our religion,everything that had to do with Bosniaks was barred.We couldn’t even be Bosniaks we had to be muslims giving us no chance to express our identity and even then we still cheered youguslavia.When it fell apart and Bosnia declared Independence with vast majority support something like 70% Bosnia issued the JNA forces or Yugoslavian National Army everything that was ours meaning from the former country and told them take everything tanks,planes,artillery,guns,ammo,helicopters,everything and take it out of Bosnia but they took it turned around and started shelling.You say numbers of killed are made up according to who you and serbian government?Hundereds of thousands dead with every day new mass graves being found.over 70 thousand women raped 2 Million forced to flee and seek shelter on the streets of foreign countries.And for you to come on here and still deny it I hope and pray your family gets put into concentration camps like your people put mine.I hope you get to watch your father being killed and dragged behind a tractor like i had to watch mine.Look what your people did to the Albanians in Kosova.same thing and yet again you deny it happen even doe it was broadcasted on ever single media channel on the planet.Now again your starting shit in Bosnia with three of war and i tell you what.Mark my words here that next war and there will be one soon we will drive you back to the carpathian mountians where you crawled down from to the ancient land of my forefathers bog Bosna Bosnjaci
Well generation 1990, a month before your birth who did enact the Constitution of Serbia of 28 September 1990?
How it reflected the state in the dying SFRY?
Who organised meetings of truths? Who peddaled dried up saintly bones?
Who toppled down communist governments in republics that opposed Milosevic by yoghurt anti-bueraucratic revolutions?
Who changed the multinational composition of YPA leadership?
And cut that Christian BS hypocrisy of eternal vuctimhood since Roman times.
You conflate religion with nationality. If Balkan orthodox slavs are Serbs through religious affiliation, how come Bulgarians, Russians, Belarus and Ukrainians are not Serbs? In that case, you being a Palestinian is sound as Jesus took his actions and got killed in Jerusalem.
And regarding the sore peculiarity of Serbian Orthodoxy, how on Earth it turned into a state nation building policy for one segment of Orthodox believers? Jesus died just for you to sinlessly make Serbian state? That is one step
away from religious fascism.
Viz. radicalization, it is far easier to make case how Christianity has inborn elements of fanaticism that instantly evolve in religious terrorism. Remember the Egyptian monk Shenoute issuing an open letter containing a thundering denunciation of a local pagan magnate and blessing his murder with the exclamation There is no crime for those who have Christ!